Heresy 108

[CommanderBC]

I have an idea. feel free to declare me a lunatic.

I remember reading an interview with Martin, where he said that the first thing he wrote were the finding of the direwolf pup in the summer snow. he emphatized that he knew that it was summer snow, as he wrote that first scene.

Therefor, I draw the maybe hasty conclusion that there is something with the snow and the winter that we don't know.

"WInter is coming"

"Kings of Winter"

"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"

"There came a night that lasted a generation, and in that darkness, The Others came for the first time."

So, to the idea, with all my assumptions and wild theories.

Before the long night, there was no winter in Westeros. The winter was only in "The Lands of Always Winter" we know we have the "Lands of Always Summer" which is Essos, right?

around 8000 years ago, The Others came south from "The Lands of Always Winter", invading "The Lands of Always Summer" (which then included Westeros).

They nearly succeded, but as all hope seemed lost, The Last Hero came forth and somehow defeated The Others. In my idea, he is Brandon The Builder.

When The Others had been pushed back to where they came from, he founded Winterfell.

But winter didn't fall, the seasons shifted irregularly.

Brandon therefor knew that one day The Others would come back. He built the wall to help those who would fight that fight when he was gone.

His house, Stark was given the words "WInter is Coming" to let his house know that The Others would come back. He also told his sons "There must always be a Stark in WInterfell". Maybe because they had means to defeat The Others.

He made house Stark Kings of Winter, made to rule the lands that bordered The Wall, and separated Westeros from the place where The Others came from. The Kings of WInter shall rule the north as long as the Winter came back to Westeros and again.

Now all this was forgotten over the thousands of years, and passed into legend. But the words that Brandon The Builder teached his sons was passed on, even though the true meaning behind them was lost.

[Him of Seven Faces]

Or this one..

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/81078-winter-fell/

Maybe you should " update " the theory/thread. Take a fresh pair of eyes over your work and see if you can add anything. I think that Theon WOW chapter has some mentions that could be helpful but maybe I am mistaken. Cheers mate :cheers: .

[redriver]

Maybe you should " update " the theory/thread. Take a fresh pair of eyes over your work and see if you can add anything. I think that Theon WOW chapter has some mentions that could be helpful but maybe I am mistaken. Cheers mate :cheers: .

I'm glad it's locked.Means you,or your latest incarnation can't pollute it.

[Him of Seven Faces]

I'm glad it's locked.Means you,or your latest incarnation can't pollute it.

And you are the Real Ron Burgundy? Thanks for that Westeros Weather report back to you Bloodraven. What's in store for the Winds of Winter? Redriver predicts a slight chance of cloudy skies and the night that never ends lol . Just goes to show that some people refuse to kiss and make up. I was trying to be nice. Feel free to pollute any thread I post on but lets have a proper debate/discussion in relation to the text and above all with good humor!

[Modesty Lannister]

Or this one..

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/81078-winter-fell/

Thanks. Will do.

[Modesty Lannister]

Maybe you should " update " the theory/thread. Take a fresh pair of eyes over your work and see if you can add anything. I think that Theon WOW chapter has some mentions that could be helpful but maybe I am mistaken. Cheers mate :cheers: .

I don't think Theon chapter is genuine. The language is off. It has too many typos for GRRM and dialogues do not resemble his work.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

I don't think Theon chapter is genuine. The language is off. It has too many typos for GRRM and dialogues do not resemble his work.

The Theon sample chapter was released quite some time ago, I think - but Martin only keeps one sample chapter on his site at a time. There are transcribed copies of the chapter still out there on web, though...

[Him of Seven Faces]

I don't think Theon chapter is genuine. The language is off. It has too many typos for GRRM and dialogues do not resemble his work.

Well luckily for me I read it when it was posted on his website a long time ago so I don't have the same issues.

Theon. Theon. They know my name.

[Modesty Lannister]

The Theon sample chapter was released quite some time ago, I think - but Martin only keeps one sample chapter on his site at a time. There are transcribed copies of the chapter still out there on web, though...

Does anyone have a reliable copy? The one is saw didn't resemble anything GRRM would write.

[King of Winters]

I don't think Theon chapter is genuine. The language is off. It has too many typos for GRRM and dialogues do not resemble his work.

The Theon chapter is in the paper back release of ADWD in England.

[King of Winters]

Does anyone have a reliable copy? The one is saw didn't resemble anything GRRM would write.

This is it http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/sample-chapter-from-winds-of-winter.207815997/

[Him of Seven Faces]

The Theon chapter is in the paper back release of ADWD in England.

all right, all right, all right. Thanks for clearing that up for our fellow posters.

[Tyryan Lannister]

Where have you been hiding you little halfman hand heretic?!?! I am sure you haven't but its been awhile since i've seen you post anything like this and it was so damn refreshing. Copy+Paste my brain. This is my new assumption of what the " truth " is. Also gonna PM you that idea for the next thread.

I've been having to deal with this stupid thing called life.... So annoying.... Wish I could be on here more; I pop in when I can

[CommanderBC]

I realize you are in the middle of a fight, but no comments on my theory? :( TLTR?

[LynnS]

I would like to sincerely apologize for the off-color and offensive remark that I made early March. I very expressly do not think that Heresy is a swamp or that anyone is a bog monster. I can’t explain that particular melt down; but hope that you will forgive my lack of judgment and courtesy. It was wrong of me to react in that manner. It’s fine work that you do. Carry on…

[Tyryan Lannister]

I realize you are in the middle of a fight, but no comments on my theory? :( TLTR?

Getting there, getting there....

I like the idea; very much makes sense, and fits nicely into Martin's explanation of the seasons having a magical origin. I would say, however, that Westeros has never been a part of the Lands of Always Summer, but rather Westeros was the Land of Always Autumn; the reason I say this is because of the Children: the Children are Those who Sing the Song of Earth; in the Circle of Elements as it appears to be utilized in Martin's world, Fire=Life=Summer, Earth=Decay=Autumn, Ice/Air/Storm=Death=Winter, Water=Rebirth=Spring. Using this, we have Southern/Eastern Essos=Summer Lands (Dany finds her Life and her meaning there); Westeros=Autumn Lands (always wars, always on the verge of complete death, but still able to barely hang on); Land of Always Winter/Beyond the Wall=Winter Lands (not much more than death and destruction); Northern/Western Essos=Spring Lands (Two Targs are reborn--Dany into a player,(f)Aegon, Tyrion starts anew, Arya starts anew, upon leaving Braavos Sam starts anew, Jorah possibly starts anew, from this area that Barry starts anew, the various sellsword groups are made up of men who are looking to start anew, Braavos was founded by former slaves looking to start anew, all the others, as colonies, would have originally been populated by people looking to start anew, Varys moved further into Waterlands to Pentos from Lys to start anew, the Mother Rhoyne). The importance of making these distinctions is that with the rise of Valyrian power came the extension of the rise of the grasp of the Summerlands, and after the doom, the two in between regions started to gain sme semblance of balance, but now the Winterlands are encroaching again, and it won't be until both the Winter and summer lands are sorted out that true Balance will be achieved

Beyond that lengthy explanation of a small disagreement, I like your overall theory

[redriver]

I realize you are in the middle of a fight, but no comments on my theory? :( TLTR?

This is as good a summary as any of what we think might be going on with the Starks,the Others,the seasons and the Wall.The who- did- what-when of it is unclear because the timelines are questionable.

Having said that I think there were normal seasons in Westeros before the Long Night and that they were skewed thereafter by sorcery intended to stop the First Men (The hammer of the waters).

[Tyryan Lannister]

I would like to sincerely apologize for the off-color and offensive remark that I made early March. I very expressly do not think that Heresy is a swamp or that anyone is a bog monster. I cant explain that particular melt down; but hope that you will forgive my lack of judgment and courtesy. It was wrong of me to react in that manner. Its fine work that you do. Carry on

Eh, it's the internet... The simple fact of us being on here brings those descriptions on us; we just smell better than some

[Frey family reunion]

Going back to Coldhands. From what I read in the books and on this thread, I'd assume the following:

1. He is a singularity. He is not the white, he is not the Other, he is not alive. He is undead and he serves Bloodraven who was/is a powerful sorcerer. He may have used a red priests' method of making an undead to serve him. I'd like your thoughts on that.

2. Black hands can be frostbitten hands that he had when he died or burned hands when he was trying to burn a white at the time he died. Being dead for a long time is very hard to define. Sam noticed that corpses of whites don't smell, nor rot, so it is really difficult to speculate on this.

3. Knowledge about the secret gate may be provided to him by BR who can see the past through the trees/may have known about the gate when he was a LC.

4. Covering his face because he is a Stark may be right, but not necessarily. Does anyone know if there was a Stark in the NW while BR was the Lord Commander? It would be interesting to see who it was.

5. Benjen Stark is too tempting a candidate to be Coldhands. That's why I think he isn't. Also, I do not think he's dead. GRRM would not introduce a character so early on, only to lose him forever. We've see characters reappearing in the Greyjoy, Connington, Targaryen camp and hear their histories in retrospect. Benjen we actually met. There is no way he was there as a Winterfell feast decoration. I strongly suspect he is in cahoots with MR, but since I cannot prove it, best leave it at that.

5. Regarding the face covering: There are several passages where the NIght's Watch rangers cover their faces with a scarf before they head out into the cold.

First Qhorin wraps a scarf about his face during their attempt to retreat back from the Frost Fangs

The Halfhand wound a long black scarf around his face and swung up into the saddle

Then Chett in the ASOS prologue:

The dogs huddled together miserably in the hard frozen mud, and Chett was half tempted to crawl in with them. Instead he wrapped a black wool scarf round the lower part of his face, leaving a slit for his mouth between the winds...

He wrapped his scarf around his face, pulled up his hood, and went striding through the camp to where the coward slept.

Sam as he marched in the retreat from the First Fist:

Heavy fur mitts covered his hands over thin wool and leather gloves, a scarf was wrapped snugly about the lower half of his face,...

He had wrapped his scarf over his nose and mouth, but it was covered with snot now, and so stiff he feared it must be frozen to his face.

And finally Jon in ADWD

Whenever the wind kicked up, sprays of loose snow filled the air and stung their eyes. Jon pulled his scarf up over his mouth and nose and raised the hood on his cloak.

It seems covering the lower part of your face would have been fairly common procedure for the Nightswatchment to keep out the cold. Perhaps Coldhands simply dresses as he died without any need to remove the scarf afterwards.

Now, interestingly enough, when Tyrion and co. are in the Sorrows, Haldon Halfmeister covers the lower part of his face and mouth with a scarf:

Haldon Halfmaester had wrapped a yellow scarf around his mouth and nose, muffling his voice. "Nothing any sane man would want to eat grows in these fogs...

"We'd do well not to breathe the fog either," said Haldon. "Garin's curse is all about us."

Apparently the Halfmeister seems to think that the scarf can be used to help protect him from the mist that he attributes to Garin's curse.

[CommanderBC]

I really hope all the theories about the long night will be sorted out. Bran certainly has the knowledge to find out now. He just have to dive in and look.