US Politics: I am a blatant racist and that will give unfair advantages to minorities or something

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Mazigh,

You're looking at this the wrong way. The loophole doesn't free the defendant, the States' inability to prove its case does.

[Mazigh]

nonono it's north african marxist-bolshevist lust academy.

There is no such thing as a North African communist

Mazigh,

You're looking at this the wrong way. The loophole doesn't free the defendant, the States' inability to prove its case does.

So if the state of Alabama is not very good a serial killer will walk away free?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Mazigh,

If the State fails to prove its case, yes, the then formerly accused should go free. The seriousness of the charge is irrelevant to the States' success in proving its case.

[sologdin]

There is no such thing as a North African communist

a bizarre proclamation!

[Mazigh]

There is no such thing as a North African communist

a bizarre proclamation!

In the same way a Boer in South Africa are not considered African I would not consider a Arab in North Africa a North African so the Arab communists that are in North Africa oppressing the actual North Africans are more like a settler population like the Americans and the Indians or the Spanish and the Aztecs

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

There is no such thing as a North African communist

That's exactly what they want you to think.

[sologdin]

so the berber socialism & revolution party is outs?

[Mazigh]

so the berber socialism & revolution party is outs?

More of a misguided like their support for Israel Both are Western inventions that will only continue to keep us down

[sologdin]

so there is a north african communist out there, even after we arbitrarily exclude all of arab commie parties, correct?

[Mazigh]

so there is a north african communist out there, even after we arbitrarily exclude all of arab commie parties, correct?

Arabs are not from North Africa so of course There may be a Algerian or a Libyan communist party but they are Arabs so not real North Africans While there may Berber communists it is like a situation where a black wants Europe to come and enslave them

[Ramsay Gimp]

Religious freedom is the least of them. What are the better reasons then?

This is way late, but here goes...

The fact that it requires children to recite a loyalty oath (yes, I know they can legally abstain but the social pressure is enormous, and many students and teachers alike don't realize they have that right) is a better reason. It's pure nationalist propaganda, and it's creepy. Especially when they're too young to understand most of the concepts, like "indivisible", "republic", etc.

I would also submit that pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth is no more rational than acknowledging a deity.

[Mazigh]

This is way late, but here goes...

The fact that it requires children to recite a loyalty oath (yes, I know they can legally abstain but the social pressure is enormous, and many students and teachers alike don't realize they have that right) is a better reason. It's pure nationalist propaganda, and it's creepy. Especially when they're too young to understand most of the concepts, like "indivisible", "republic", etc.

I would also submit that pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth is no more rational than acknowledging a deity.

The Jehovian Witnesses got to not have to do it

[Ramsay Gimp]

No one should have to do it is the point. The United States should not have a loyalty oath for regular citizens

[Suttree]

Where are you from, may I ask?

The answer to that depends on whether he remembers to stay in character.

[Wise Fool]

This is way late, but here goes...

The fact that it requires children to recite a loyalty oath (yes, I know they can legally abstain but the social pressure is enormous, and many students and teachers alike don't realize they have that right) is a better reason. It's pure nationalist propaganda, and it's creepy. Especially when they're too young to understand most of the concepts, like "indivisible", "republic", etc.

I would also submit that pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth is no more rational than acknowledging a deity.

Good reasons, but to me they go hand-in-hand with the "under God" bit as well. It is, in fact, pledging loyalty to God as well as to the country, and so constitutes not simply nationalism but theocratic nationalism as well. Neither of which is something children need to be conditioned with.

[Mazigh]

The answer to that depends on whether he remembers to stay in character.

Again that is a more poorer argument than calling me a anti semitic so as I said before are you just going to admit I am right?

[Larry of the Lawn]

Arabs are not from North Africa so of course There may be a Algerian or a Libyan communist party but they are Arabs so not real North Africans While there may Berber communists it is like a situation where a black wants Europe to come and enslave them

Dude Arabs have been in North Africa for, like, a millennium.

[Mazigh]

Dude Arabs have been in North Africa for, like, a millennium.

They got kicked out really fast anyway only leaving a few token ones around When the West imperialized us that allowed them to make a come back since they gave the control over to the Arabs It doesn't matter anyway that just makes them implants that have been here since the 640s AD

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I would also submit that pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth is no more rational than acknowledging a deity.

Eh, at least you know the cloth exists.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Good reasons, but to me they go hand-in-hand with the "under God" bit as well. It is, in fact, pledging loyalty to God as well as to the country, and so constitutes not simply nationalism but theocratic nationalism as well. Neither of which is something children need to be conditioned with.

Fair enough. I just think people who narrowly focus on "Under God", and think they will have won some great victory if those two words get removed, are missing the point.

Pretty much agree with this up to the last line.

But on the last line, I think there's such a thing as symbolism, and I do believe in nation states as the least bad form of government. I still think I'm against the pledge overall, but we are at least quite certain that the entity known as the United States of America exists.

ETA: That is to say that I think the pledge is clearly geared toward the national entity rather than its symbolic cloth.

But you've come to those conclusions about the nation-state and the USA as a free-thinking adult, which is fine. They shouldn't be crammed down your throat as a 6-year-old

And the Pledge says "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA, and to the republic..." They're literally pledging fealty to the cloth first, the ideals second. I don't see how that's any more rational than worshipping a cross. If they simply faced the flag, but didn't mention it in the pledge, it would be less ridiculous (but still not good).