Jack's Smirking Revenge Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 In fact, I see this as another proof of Arya's power - a sort of necromancy of cause and effect, since she caused her mother's "resurrection" as Lady Stoneheart. Only death can pay for life, no ? She has been saying prayers and feeding lives into the abyss, both as girl and wolf. The gods heard her prayer, and were involved. Which gods? Well, R'hillor may have seemed the one, and Arya's proved to be as cunning an agent as the Many Faced God could hope for, but I submit that Arya - wolf child and blood child - had her prayer heard by the Old Gods. This reminds me of the Mercy chapter where Arya states that the Gods sent her a gift. I wondered if she meant the old gods (I think she did) or if she meant all the gods because the House of Black and White is excepting of all faiths (at least that's been the impression I've gotten). Just something that popped into my head. I could see Arya continuing to warg animals in Braavos and Westeros in order to assassinate her targets and not running across Nymeria. Sansa, on the other hand, is a lot closer to encountering her sister's wolf, and she may be the one to regain control of Nymeria. I am completely against the idea of Sansa gaining control over Nymeria. Nymeria is as wild and bloodthirsty as Arya and IMO only Arya should be able to gain "control" over Nymeria. Arya wouldn't let herself be controlled by Sansa and I see no reason why Nymeria would. After all the wolves all reflect their specific Stark child's personality. I do believe that the training Arya is receiving with the FM is awakening her warg/skinchanging spirit - but I also believe that Arya was guided to Braavos for a purpose - and a big part of the purpose is that she is a Stark with the blood of the First Men in her veins, and Him of Many Faces is well aware of the power in Arya's blood. But that is just my take on things! Yes I've thought of the possibilty of the FM knowing Arya is a warg/skinchanger. That's certainly a useful tool for the FM to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Shaggydog Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Such a great thread, and great early quotes as to Tom O' Sevens, the wolf son, and Nymeria's pack/army. The pack definitely has to keep moving to keep fed, and heading north makes the most sense, since they are ultimately led by an actual Direwolf from the North, and Bran/Bloodraven could be somewhat involved in their movements. I think all the dire wolves of the Starks are direct embodiments of the Old Gods, most notably through Ghost, but certainly through Bran/Summer, and the connection Robb had with Grey Wind. In that case, they would be also connected to the Weirwoods, and through that Bloodraven. Does Bran become his own version of Bloodraven, as it seems he is on the path to becoming? Bloodraven's First Men/Old God blood is from the Blackwoods, whose sigil is their weir wood with ravens. Bloodraven has a thousand eyes and one, of ravens, and it is strongly implied he is connected to the LC's raven in Castle Black. He is also, confirmed, the three eyed raven. Would Bran, with the Starks as his source of First Men/Old God blood, be similar to Bloodraven, but with wolves? Will the pack grow to that size, to be controlled by Bran as Bloodraven controlled his ravens? Talk about a serious blunt weapon - being able to send a wave of wolves against an enemy is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Shaggydog Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 As to Rymunds song, Wolves in the Night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPl6-dbIkiU Its a cheesy song, but great at the same time. Only one part is relevant here, but still worth a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uldra I Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Such a great thread, and great early quotes as to Tom O' Sevens, the wolf son, and Nymeria's pack/army. The pack definitely has to keep moving to keep fed, and heading north makes the most sense, since they are ultimately led by an actual Direwolf from the North, and Bran/Bloodraven could be somewhat involved in their movements. I think all the dire wolves of the Starks are direct embodiments of the Old Gods, most notably through Ghost, but certainly through Bran/Summer, and the connection Robb had with Grey Wind. In that case, they would be also connected to the Weirwoods, and through that Bloodraven. Does Bran become his own version of Bloodraven, as it seems he is on the path to becoming? Bloodraven's First Men/Old God blood is from the Blackwoods, whose sigil is their weir wood with ravens. Bloodraven has a thousand eyes and one, of ravens, and it is strongly implied he is connected to the LC's raven in Castle Black. He is also, confirmed, the three eyed raven. Would Bran, with the Starks as his source of First Men/Old God blood, be similar to Bloodraven, but with wolves? Will the pack grow to that size, to be controlled by Bran as Bloodraven controlled his ravens? Talk about a serious blunt weapon - being able to send a wave of wolves against an enemy is incredible. LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse does great research. I've run into his work in a few different threads now. I think he could find anything that is there in the books. Here's to you LTFtSaH! :cheers: I agree that the Old Gods are at work in the Stark direwolves (and kids too, w/exception of Sansa). My thoughts are that BR is training Bran to take over for him. If that is true, Bran will probably be able to warg whatever he wants. We've already seen he can warg Hodor, a human. I also think something will trigger Arya to realize her wolf dreams aren't just dreams and that she is actually inside Nymeria's head. When that happens, she'll start being able to control Nymeria more. Someone in this thread suggested that Arya already has an impact on Nym's actions through her dreams. I agree with that. Even if her warg dreams are not as controlled as Bran's warging, surely some of her feelings, memories, and thoughts are transmitted to Nym in her contact with the wolf. As to Rymunds song, Wolves in the Night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPl6-dbIkiU Its a cheesy song, but great at the same time. Only one part is relevant here, but still worth a listen. I like the song... so sad though. It reminds me of my ex... he was a real cowboy, roundups, ranging, the whole bit. He always complained that he was born in the wrong era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Arya's subconscious desire for Winterfell, home and family may in fact be what is actually driving Nymeria North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Shaggydog Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Arya's subconscious desire for Winterfell, home and family may in fact be what is actually driving Nymeria North. Nymeria might have a subconscious, or conscious desire for the Wolfswood as well, since that was where she was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Nymeria might have a subconscious, or conscious desire for the Wolfswood as well, since that was where she was born. indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Arya has the warg-gene, but she has no training on how to use her ability. I think that in the end Arya will decide leaving her body to continue living only in her wolf, as she finds no joy on being a lady or a killer, only in being a wolf. I don't know what books you've been reading, but she revels in her ability to kill without remorse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I don't know what books you've been reading, but she revels in her ability to kill without remorse.Only those she has reason to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here Shaggydog Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 All this if George even gives any dorewolf the light of day. Which hasn't been the case since A Game of Thrones really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uldra I Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Arya's subconscious desire for Winterfell, home and family may in fact be what is actually driving Nymeria North. If she does go up north to Winterfell and the wolfswood, remember one of Arya's last prayers said she can't name them (the Freys at the RW), but she will learn their names? Well, if Arya spots some of the Freys through Nymeria dreams, then I bet Nymeria will go for their throats. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Only those she has reason to kill. She has a list. Why did she have to kill Raff; he did bad things? Dexter killed bad people too, he was still a murderer. She's a killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uldra I Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 yep and going super 007 on us too. The Assassinator comes for all who do evil! muahhahHaH ps. Raff helped capture, rape, torture and kill all those small folk in the Riverlands. Not sure who Dexter is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 yep and going super 007 on us too. The Assassinator comes for all who do evil! muahhahHaH ps. Raff helped capture, rape, torture and kill all those small folk in the Riverlands. Not sure who Dexter is. I know what Raff did, I was being facetious. Dexter was a sitcom character who was a serial killer who only hunted people that were hardened criminals. He murdered them in very gruesome ways but intelligently so he wasn't caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uldra I Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 I know what Raff did, I was being facetious. Dexter was a sitcom character who was a serial killer who only hunted people that were hardened criminals. He murdered them in very gruesome ways but intelligently so he wasn't caught. oh.. :blushing: sorry I didn't catch your meaning. btw, Is Dexter a show you'd recommend? Heehee, see it must be our age difference... I bring up 007 and you bring up Dexter. LOL :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 oh.. :blushing: sorry I didn't catch your meaning. btw, Is Dexter a show you'd recommend? Heehee, see it must be our age difference... I bring up 007 and you bring up Dexter. LOL :laugh: I didn't watch a lot of it. My parents swear by it though and they're 70! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 She has a list. Why did she have to kill Raff; he did bad things? Dexter killed bad people too, he was still a murderer. She's a killer. I thought it was pretty obvious that she killed Raff because of Lommy. I mean, she made him say "you're going to have to carry me!" Which were Lommy's last words. And she named herself Mercy, which was what Lommy said directly before speaking those words and getting stabbed in the throat.As far as Dexter goes.....did you watch the show? Because Dexter was bound by his code only to kill people who deserve it. Dexter would most certainly have remorse if an innocent died because of him. Arya is the same way, an avenging angel that kills for a reason, not a remorseless serial killer that kills for none. she killed Raff, who was a remorseless serial killer that killed for fun, smashing a 3-year old's face and then his mother. The Mountain's men are all dead now, save Shitmouth, who Arya had no reason to kill as he was kind to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I thought it was pretty obvious that she killed Raff because of Lommy. I mean, she made him say "you're going to have to carry me!" Which were Lommy's last words. And she named herself Mercy, which was what Lommy said directly before speaking those words and getting stabbed in the throat.As far as Dexter goes.....did you watch the show? Because Dexter was bound by his code only to kill people who deserve it. Dexter would most certainly have remorse if an innocent died because of him. Arya is the same way, an avenging angel that kills for a reason, not a remorseless serial killer that kills for none. she killed Raff, who was a remorseless serial killer that killed for fun, smashing a 3-year old's face and then his mother. The Mountain's men are all dead now, save Shitmouth, who Arya had no reason to kill as he was kind to her. Arya is fully capable of killing whomever she wants without remorse. I don't know what, in any of the books, has led you to believe otherwise. She's cruel. She may not be the type of person to murder a 3 year old girl, but she is cruel nonetheless and her heart is stone. She even has zero sympathy for those she considers weak. She is a wolf and hates the sheep of the world. She may not desire to kill them, but she definitely has no regard for those she doesn't care about. As far as Lommy, I know. I was making a point. I understand exactly why Raff was on her list. Dexter did kill innocent people too. The episodes I watched with my parents were the final season, and he definitely showed his ability to kill the innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 what specific passage leads you to believe Arya is capable of killing whomever she wants without remorse? as far as the Dexter thing, what innocent did he kill without remorse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Arya is fully capable of killing whomever she wants without remorse. I don't know what, in any of the books, has led you to believe otherwise. She's cruel. She may not be the type of person to murder a 3 year old girl, but she is cruel nonetheless and her heart is stone. She even has zero sympathy for those she considers weak. She is a wolf and hates the sheep of the world. She may not desire to kill them, but she definitely has no regard for those she doesn't care about. As far as Lommy, I know. I was making a point. I understand exactly why Raff was on her list. Dexter did kill innocent people too. The episodes I watched with my parents were the final season, and he definitely showed his ability to kill the innocent. That being the case how soon do you think she will be drummed out of The house of Black and White, Church of Many Gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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