Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 In other words exactly how he died. True, but it would come down to Dany not fulfilling the contract and turned him down. So, it was her "fault". Why should Doran spend a second thought one her, especially when there is someone else you actually have something to give them back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ground_control Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 True, but it would come down to Dany not fulfilling the contract and turned him down. So, it was her "fault". Why should Doran spend a second thought one her, especially when there is someone else you actually have something to give them back? Doran did not consider Oberyn to have been murdered because it was a Trial by Combat; why would he blame Dany because Quentin dies trying to impress Dany by taking a Dragon when she wasn't present? Both Oberyn and Quentin died taking risks for Dorne, but it wasn't Dany's "fault" that Quentin died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Stark Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Still, Doran wouldn't really throw his support behind her. She's very inexperienced in war, and would make a pretty bad Queen.And gossip would make it's way to him that she's infertile, so no heir. No heir means another possible war of succession. No one wants that.Btw, it doesn't matter if Dany isn't really infertile or not, she thinks she is, and rumors may have spread of her infertility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I doubt if Doran will be alive for much longer, or if his views will be decisive.Power is being transferred to Arianne (who sees Dany and Quentyn as rivals) and the Sand Snakes, who are mad for revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averde Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Doran did not consider Oberyn to have been murdered because it was a Trial by Combat; why would he blame Dany because Quentin dies trying to impress Dany by taking a Dragon when she wasn't present? Both Oberyn and Quentin died taking risks for Dorne, but it wasn't Dany's "fault" that Quentin died.With Oberyn it's super clear what happened, Oberyn volunteered himself for a trial by combat where death was fairly likely. With Quentyn however Doran has lost his beloved son who was on a mission to pick up his bride, there really wasn't all that much chance for him to die. Had Danny held up the marriage contract and left with Quentyn, Quentyn would be alive. I'll be shocked if Doran just goes "oh I totally understand their your dragons and your blood of the dragon and all that but you can't stop them from killing people, even your allies. Lets totally team up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman1863 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Given the way misinformation seems to reign in this world, I think garbled word that Quentyn was roasted by one of Dany's dragons closes the possibility of an alliance with Dorne. I think if he knew the full truth, Doran would not consider things irreparable. But he's not going to hear the full truth and that's pretty much all that matters. In the speculative impossibility that the full truth of Quentyn's misadventures reached Doran, I would expect that he would have taken a measured view of the question. Quentyn went with an offer of a new marriage alliance, with evidence that a prospective previous one existed to make it persuasive (Though its rather unpersuasive since he never lifted a finger to make the Viserys contract a reality). Doran had to have known that the possibility existed that the offer would be rejected. And I don't see him thinking that the marriage would be absolutely necessary to an alliance. Such stingy demands for a house allegedly thirsting for revenge strike me as a bluff, particularly so with Dany being far from a beggar. "Were bursting to fight for you to restore you to your rightful throne and avenge our losses and right the wrongs done to us, but we will only do it if you agree to a marriage alliance." It reminds me of Tywin's reaction to Balon's offer of an alliance in return for the north- why pay for something they are already giving you for free. As for the other houses and regions, I think it all depends on timing and the existing situation when Dany finally shows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 "He tried to tame a dragon to gain her love." Easy. What lol. Doran will have questions. Why was he trying to tame the dragon? Where was Dany at the time? Did Dany tell him to do it? Doran would have to be an idiot to believe that story. True, but it would come down to Dany not fulfilling the contract and turned him down. So, it was her "fault". Why should Doran spend a second thought one her, especially when there is someone else you actually have something to give them back? She refused him and then told him to go home. In response: Quentyn decides to steal her dragons, fails, dies hilariously, and unleashes them upon Meereen. How is it her fault, again? Because the dragons belong to her? The marriage contract was for Viserys and Arianne, not Dany. I know you want Dany to be without allies and to be blamed for every darn thing but your reasoning is terrible. You're suggesting Doran Martell wouldn't spend a second thinking over a story about the death of his son. That Doran Martell would just rush into action. Wat lol. Sample chapter spoilers:It's Arianne who calls the shots now. Doran has left it up to her to declare for war. Arianne is already suspicious of Dany because of Viserys (who also got himself killed). When she hears Quentyn died by dragon fire, she'll resent Dany and declare for someone else. Perhaps Aegon. Given the way misinformation seems to reign in this world, I think garbled word that Quentyn was roasted by one of Dany's dragons closes the possibility of an alliance with Dorne. I think if he knew the full truth, Doran would not consider things irreparable. But he's not going to hear the full truth and that's pretty much all that matters. In the speculative impossibility that the full truth of Quentyn's misadventures reached Doran, I would expect that he would have taken a measured view of the question. Quentyn went with an offer of a new marriage alliance, with evidence that a prospective previous one existed to make it persuasive (Though its rather unpersuasive since he never lifted a finger to make the Viserys contract a reality). Doran had to have known that the possibility existed that the offer would be rejected. And I don't see him thinking that the marriage would be absolutely necessary to an alliance. Such stingy demands for a house allegedly thirsting for revenge strike me as a bluff, particularly so with Dany being far from a beggar. "Were bursting to fight for you to restore you to your rightful throne and avenge our losses and right the wrongs done to us, but we will only do it if you agree to a marriage alliance." It reminds me of Tywin's reaction to Balon's offer of an alliance in return for the north- why pay for something they are already giving you for free. As for the other houses and regions, I think it all depends on timing and the existing situation when Dany finally shows up. Spot on. :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosImprisonateMe Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I think Dany has her own problems with her own army. I feel she will be supported by a house somehow or someway. She just looks like the persian army right now and her army doesn't really have an identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Dany has dragons and a powerful army, that's all she needs to win allies. Even if, hypothetically, the ruling houses of each province would refuse her, other great houses would likely come to her aid. House Hightower for example, has no love for the Tyrells and could easily be persuaded to join Dany and usurp them. Under the right circumstances I could see The Reader bringing House Harlaw, largest of the Iron islands, to Dany's side as well. The ruling houses now, may not be the ruling houses if Dany were to win her throne.Pretty much this. I think she'll have the Vale and the Iron Islands as her main allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unSonofStannis Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 No, Dany maybe fire made flesh like Vic, Mel and Moqorro so she doesnt really need any allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 snip Obcious :bs: is obvious :bs: . Doran will get a bag of bones instead a living breathing young man bag and he will hear from people he trust what happen and he will still support her? Especially since now Dany has nothing to offer him back for his support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Especially since now Dany has nothing to offer him back for his support?Except for the exact same things she had before he sent Quentyn. An army, dragons, the Targaryen name etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Doran wants equality. Aegon cannot give him that. He gives him a good monarch, though he is not what Daenerys would bring. Doran wants a new government style. So he goes with Daenerys. He would never find out what happened to Quentyn and even if, Daenerys had nothing to do with it, Doran isn't that stupid as to jump because of some bad talk about her. He didn't go to war against the Lannisters or maim Myrcella because they killed Oberyn, because he knew it was his own fault. Quentyn is the same example. He wanted to fight dragons, he did and he died. It was not like Daenerys didn't post several guards there. And she didn't even give the command to the dragons to burn him. And isn't peace and freedom enough reward for supporting someone? Gandhi didn't make thousands of gift bags and didn't give new high positions or marriages to those who followed him. And under his leadership thousands died, but not at his hands. Still, even if the people died, others started following him. Why? Because they saw a further endgame in his movement and it was worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Except for the exact same things she had before he sent Quentyn. An army, dragons, the Targaryen name etc... I disagree mostly because this is kidda of naive to put it kindly. Doran wants one of his children to have the throne and now Quentyn is dead he cannot have it if he follows Dany. If on the other hand follows FAegon, who btw claim to be his nephew and even if he isn't he is still a better candidate than Mad King with teats and WMD, he does have something to gain. Doran wants equality. Nice joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well she might have other allies like the Iron Born and perhaps the Reach but Dorne is gone. Why the hell would Dorne ever want to ally with Dany after hearing about Quentyn? That was Doran's son. Do you really think that Doran is going to say "OK, my son was an idiot who tried to tame a dragon because he wouldn't take No for an answer and so I'm now going to ally with the lady who owns those dragons"? Please, Doran will probably believe Aegon is the real deal and Arianne will probably marry him. Doran will side with his sister's son, who incidentally, has also captured a major castle without the aid of dragons. Believing Dorne will declare for Dany is wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Nice joke. That's the problem when one doesn't read about the character that is talked about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Absolutely not. Doran could not just assume that frog boy was going to automatically get Dany's hand and cry about it if not. I can't possibly believe that cautious ass Doran is that short sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well she might have other allies like the Iron Born and perhaps the Reach but Dorne is gone. Why the hell would Dorne ever want to ally with Dany after hearing about Quentyn? That was Doran's son. Do you really think that Doran is going to say "OK, my son was an idiot who tried to tame a dragon because he wouldn't take No for an answer and so I'm now going to ally with the lady who owns those dragons"? Please, Doran will probably believe Aegon is the real deal and Arianne will probably marry him. Doran will side with his sister's son, who incidentally, has also captured a major castle without the aid of dragons. Believing Dorne will declare for Dany is wishful thinking. That was Doran's mistake you mean. Not Dany's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 True, but it would come down to Dany not fulfilling the contract and turned him down. So, it was her "fault". Why should Doran spend a second thought one her, especially when there is someone else you actually have something to give them back? Dany was not bound to any contract. He should spend second thoughts on her because he spent years planning to ally with her, so now he just throws it all away because of a poor plan and decides to jump on the Faegon train out of the blue? Doran isn't just going to jump into bed with the next Targ because.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 That's the problem when one doesn't read about the character that is talked about. Really? Because as I see it Doran wants power, one of his children as the monarch, and revenge for Elia. I haven't seen anything about equality, but please enlighten me. Dany was not bound to any contract. He should spend second thoughts on her because he spent years planning to ally with her, so now he just throws it all away because of a poor plan and decides to jump on the Faegon train out of the blue? Doran isn't just going to jump into bed with the next Targ because.... Allying with someone who have nothing to gave back why exactly? Hell yes FAegon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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