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[Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

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I think the point was made clear.

What that the show did it differently than it will be done in the books?

He threw a few different scenarios out there so I wasn't sure which was the case.

Edited by Tyrion Hand of the King

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For me I am taking the show as something separate from the books at this point. Remember the books were initially a trilogy, to have an Aegon appear in the fifth book and to weave a plot around "him" strikes me as grasping for plot. At this point with all the new characters that could befall the tv show there is no way to bring all the supposed story lines together. The Tower of Joy, sorry but it could easily be omitted from the tv show. I hope the tv show does not go the way of the later books. I prefer to see plot development with story to climax.


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For me I am taking the show as something separate from the books at this point. Remember the books were initially a trilogy, to have an Aegon appear in the fifth book and to weave a plot around "him" strikes me as grasping for plot. At this point with all the new characters that could befall the tv show there is no way to bring all the supposed story lines together. The Tower of Joy, sorry but it could easily be omitted from the tv show. I hope the tv show does not go the way of the later books. I prefer to see plot development with story to climax.

But the middle book of the original planned trilogy was going to be "A Dance With Dragons" anyway, which implies that Aegon was always planned to be in the story, but he was going to show up in the second book, not the fifth. I suppose there are other meanings you could put on "A Dance with Dragons", but the original Dance (in the series history) was a dispute between two Targaryens, so it makes sense that the new one would be the same.

You have to admit, people would think differently of Aegon if he'd showed up in the middle book of a trilogy.

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But the middle book of the original planned trilogy was going to be "A Dance With Dragons" anyway, which implies that Aegon was always planned to be in the story, but he was going to show up in the second book, not the fifth. I suppose there are other meanings you could put on "A Dance with Dragons", but the original Dance (in the series history) was a dispute between two Targaryens, so it makes sense that the new one would be the same.

You have to admit, people would think differently of Aegon if he'd showed up in the middle book of a trilogy.

Yea I definitely agree with you. I'm always surprised at how many people consider Aegon to be unimportant simply because he arrived late in the story. There's a very real possibility he ends up sitting the IT, so I don't really see how he could be considered unimportant.

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My reference to a spoiler was the Rolling Stone cover. Has this been addressed somewhere bc if so I managed to miss it

Maybe the article muddies things up again.

Edited by rmholt

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My reference to a spoiler was the Rolling Stone cover. Has this been addressed somewhere bc if so I managed to miss it

Maybe the article muddies things up again.

Just saw the cover this afternoon. I have lived with and accepted the R + L = J theory for so long I didn`t even make anything out of it. (Though I sincerely find this new debate fascinating)

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Just saw the cover this afternoon. I have lived with and accepted the R + L = J theory for so long I didn`t even make anything out of it. (Though I sincerely find this new debate fascinating)

Perhaps it's meant to reference royal ancestors but he's pretty far from the king in RL.

It's my dream that the theory is true but doesn't matter. As if ha ha.

Edited by rmholt

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But the middle book of the original planned trilogy was going to be "A Dance With Dragons" anyway, which implies that Aegon was always planned to be in the story, but he was going to show up in the second book, not the fifth. I suppose there are other meanings you could put on "A Dance with Dragons", but the original Dance (in the series history) was a dispute between two Targaryens, so it makes sense that the new one would be the same.

You have to admit, people would think differently of Aegon if he'd showed up in the middle book of a trilogy.

Thats kind of my point , the author is not tying up the story. And we have all heard about many other Dragons. Dany , Jon, even Tyrion, that could of and would of danced

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Thats kind of my point , the author is not tying up the story. And we have all heard about many other Dragons. Dany , Jon, even Tyrion, that could of and would of danced

I think that in order for it to count as a "Dance of Dragons", you need two people who actually claim to be Dragons, which would be Daenerys and Aegon. Jon is almost certainly a Dragon but not known to be, even by himself, and Tyrion is almost certainly not a Dragon, nor does anyone in the books think he is.

If Jon and Dany "Danced" it would be "Wolf and Dragon Tango", and if Tyrion and Dany "Danced" it would be "Lion and Dragon Samba".

It's only a Dance of Dragons if it's Dany and Aegon.

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Apparently it can just be dragons without riders. And to point out the obvious, Jon is likely half dragon, whether he knows it or not,

Edited by rmholt

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Perhaps it's meant to reference royal ancestors but he's pretty far from the king in RL.

It's my dream that the theory is true but doesn't matter. As if ha ha.

Yeah, that would be in keeping with Martin's thing for mixing destiny and nihilism. That's my theory as to why the books are taking so long. :P

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Did I miss something or does Margaery having no inkling of the assassination make absolutely zero sense? Poison in the goblet of her husband seems far to uncontrollable, uncertain and dangerous for her not to know due to the risk it poses to herself.


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Did I miss something or does Margaery having no inkling of the assassination make absolutely zero sense? Poison in the goblet of her husband seems far to uncontrollable, uncertain and dangerous for her not to know due to the risk it poses to herself.

I've been to my share of wedding. I've never drunk out of somebody else's glass.

In the book, Mace Tyrell gifts the wedding couple a huge and ornate goblet. Hence, the married couple took turns drinking out of it. For the show, they each had their own cups and there was no reason to believe they would be sharing. I'm sure Olenna was keeping a close eye on the goblet to make sure no "accidents" occurred once she slipped in the poison.

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Just rewatched the Tommen/Margaery scene in a rebroadcast of last week's episode. Noticed that, when Marge asks him "you know what happens" w.r.t. marriage, Tommen's immediate -- and eager -- response is "we say our vows in front of the high septon, and..."



His first guess as to what makes a good king in Ep 3 was "holiness."



Book Tommen was naive due to his age. Show Tommen is older, too old to have that simple naivete of youth. I wonder if they're going to compensate for that by playing up the pious angle to explain why he's a little naive: sheltered, buried in religious texts, unworldly due to being so focused on the divine (and genuinely interested in being a godly king).



REALLY interesting angle if they keep up with that later on, when the new High Septon/the Faith Militant becomes a factor. Maybe it'll be [partly] Tommen's own idea, rooted in sincere religious leanings.



EDIT: kinda hoping he makes a religious statement during his coronation in tonight's episode, some sort of shout-out to Baelor The Blessed as a role model, setting the tone for his (intended) pious reign.


Edited by Sour Robin

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Just rewatched the Tommen/Margaery scene in a rebroadcast of last week's episode. Noticed that, when Marge asks him "you know what happens" w.r.t. marriage, Tommen's immediate -- and eager -- response is "we say our vows in front of the high septon, and..."

His first guess as to what makes a good king in Ep 3 was "holiness."

Book Tommen was naive due to his age. Show Tommen is older, too old to have that simple naivete of youth. I wonder if they're going to compensate for that by playing up the pious angle to explain why he's a little naive: sheltered, buried in religious texts, unworldly due to being so focused on the divine (and genuinely interested in being a godly king).

REALLY interesting angle if they keep up with that later on, when the new High Septon/the Faith Militant becomes a factor. Maybe it'll be [partly] Tommen's own idea, rooted in sincere religious leanings.

EDIT: kinda hoping he makes a religious statement during his coronation in tonight's episode, some sort of shout-out to Baelor The Blessed as a role model, setting the tone for his (intended) pious reign.

It is a possibility that Tommen is some sort of Baelor the Blessed reborn or something but I doubt it, because in the scene with Tywin you can see clearly how he is very influenced by him and I cannot imagine Tywin letting the future king be another pious idiot like Lancel becomes in the books.

Though it makes sense because second sons were usually prepared to do career in religion I don't think Tywin would let him go the pious way

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