Miodrag Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yeah I agreed with your other points, btw. It was a weird scene that was kind of off-putting towards Margaery as a character, especially considering it was essentially her first real scene. I don't really like that they've shifted all of Cersei's sexual manipulation onto Margaery. Cersei on the show is completely non-sexual, which goes against her book character majorly. "No, you're wrong, you just a hater, Margaery is improved in the show, in the books she doesn't have a personality and D&D gave her one, and Cersei too, she's just a one-note villain in the books, George missed badly with her, and it's not like George knows how to write female characters anyway..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Road Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 They made her infinitely more manipulative, but not in a believable way. She is willing to have sex with both her husband and her brother simultaneously - AKA: a threesome - as soon as she saw the husband isn't aroused. Repeat: threesome with the husband and the brother. That's not only manipulative, that's disgusting. And anyone that disgusting is not really manipulative, because such caricatural perversion can't help but turn people away (except in badly written shows, of course). I'm not talking about TV Marg's possible motives, but about what she actually suggests to Renly. Now, for comparison sake, just imagine Renly's having an affair not with Loras, but with Brienne. And then, one night, Margaery suggests to Renly to invite Brienne in, to help them with sex. Would it be disgusting? Most probably. I mean, not only that she doesn't mind him having an affair, but she's also willing to use his mistress and himself in some agenda of hers. Any real-life Renly would run away from the bitch as far as possible and as soon as possible. And now, just imagine how infinitely more disgusting Margaery's proposition becomes if, instead of Brienne, Margaery's brother is Renly's lover. It doesn't get sicker than that, I'd say. And, speaking of the respect D&D deserve, I'm pretty sure they wrote Margaery's suggestion without ever realizing how disgusting it is. It's very telling of their writing competence. And I'm pretty sure TV Dany's better off without that kind of "adaptation". (Not that D&D are doing a good with TV Dany anyway.) If you're not disgusted by it then you'd be a creep. Nevertheless I think it shows that Margaery is willing to do anything to be The Queen. That said, the suggestion seemed to me that Loras would start Renly off and Margaery would come in at the end so to speak. I don't think she or Loras would have touched each other. As for the Brienne one, this one isn't really that creepy. Margaery is fine with her husband having an affair, their relationship was hardly one built on love anyway. She's willing to use her husband's mistress as part of her agenda? Well see my previous comment, Margaery will do almost anything to advance her family's position. As for Renly, he can't run the other way, he needs the swords and money that come with Margaery's hand. It ultimately comes down to whether you view it as being merely 'sick', or if you actually think about what Margaery's suggestion reveals about her ambitions. She's ok with sick, so long as it gets her where she wants to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 sure, but not much more disgusting than marrying one king after another... which book!Margaery did. Sorry, but a threesome that includes her own brother is infinitely more disgusting than changing husbands - especially in a culture that depends so much on arranged marriages, and if coming from a family every other party desires for an ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 "No, you're wrong, you just a hater, Margaery is improved in the show, in the books she doesn't have a personality and D&D gave her one, and Cersei too, she's just a one-note villain in the books, George missed badly with her, and it's not like George knows how to write female characters anyway..." Lol yeah, that argument that just because Cersei cries more and says she loves her kids more and plays up the whole "woe is me" card means she is more complex or deep or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Up_Bxtch Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 My friends.. there's a difference between liking and disliking something.. be it acting, the weather, food.. whatever. But to rip to shreds the ability of an actor ( a person trying their best.. who worked hard to get where they are), because you didn't like their performance.. well.. you either see my point, or I'm just wasting my time ;) Remember, people have feelings, and nobody likes to be singled out and humiliated. But that's what I see here.. bullying and humiliation.. which is, of course, a form of discrimination. Please look for positives in GoT (the TV series), not negatives.. otherwise, what's the point in watching? Exactly, do these people not realize this is Emilia's FIRST big role in career? She's not even been acting that long Jesus Christ and people are acting like she's been acting like 20 years.... I think she's doing fine, I've seen WAYYY worse actors and I've seen a lot of movies and tv shows, I'll be going to school for acting real soon, and while I'll admit some stuff she says is cringe worthy, these guys are comparing her to people with 20+ years experience(Lena Headey) in the industry and expecting her to be as good it's ridiculous.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Exactly, do these people not realize this is Emilia's FIRST big role in career? She's not even been acting that long Jesus Christ and people are acting like she's been acting like 20 years.... I think she's doing fine, I've seen WAYYY worse actors and I've seen a lot of movies and tv shows, I'll be going to school for acting real soon, and while I'll admit some stuff she says is cringe worthy, these guys are comparing her to people with 20+ years experience(Lena Headey) in the industry and expecting her to be as good it's ridiculous.... So we're suddenly supposed to accept mediocrity because 'it's her first shot' or something? That's no excuse. For the money she gets paid, and the very rare opportunity she has been given over many other young aspiring actresses, one would assume she would be great for the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Up_Bxtch Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So we're suddenly supposed to accept mediocrity because 'it's her first shot' or something? That's no excuse. For the money she gets paid, and the very rare opportunity she has been given over many other young aspiring actresses, one would assume she would be great for the role. I actually don't think she's that bad, people are just expecting one thing from her while she gives something different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirar Salih Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I actually don't think she's that bad, people are just expecting one thing from her while she gives something different... Yeah, and that "different" is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 If you're not disgusted by it then you'd be a creep. Nevertheless I think it shows that Margaery is willing to do anything to be The Queen. That said, the suggestion seemed to me that Loras would start Renly off and Margaery would come in at the end so to speak. I don't think she or Loras would have touched each other. As for the Brienne one, this one isn't really that creepy. Margaery is fine with her husband having an affair, their relationship was hardly one built on love anyway. She's willing to use her husband's mistress as part of her agenda? Well see my previous comment, Margaery will do almost anything to advance her family's position. As for Renly, he can't run the other way, he needs the swords and money that come with Margaery's hand. It ultimately comes down to whether you view it as being merely 'sick', or if you actually think about what Margaery's suggestion reveals about her ambitions. She's ok with sick, so long as it gets her where she wants to go. Well, this is the dialogue that ensues once Renly can't proceed with the intercourse: Margaery: Do you want my brother to come in and help? Renly (shocked): What?! Margaery: Or he can get you started? I know he wouldn't mind. Or I can turn over and you can pretend I'm him. Renly (somewhat angry, but obviously disturbed and frightened): I don't know what you're talking about! Margaery: There's no need for us to play games. Save your lies for court, you're going to need a lot of them. Now, I don't know if it's just incompetent writing, or perhaps D&D wanted for the audience to see Margaery as a despicable manipulator to whom literally nothing is sacred (which would've been an incompetent storytelling, considering what they've done with Margaery later on), but this scene can't help but paint her as a sick individual. And yes, at first she does suggest for Loras to join them. Her second sentence: "Or he can get you started?", means Loras would only get Renly excited and then leave. Now, I'm not sure it's practically possible, but OK, let's say that was on her mind. But, in that light, her first proposition means only one thing, as far as I can see. Her possible motives and ambitions help her in no way. I mean, Cersei's ambitions doesn't absolve her of anything, right? Why would Marg's absolve her, then? As for Brienne, I already said it isn't that creepy, because she's not related to Brienne in any way. But, according to this dialogue, Renly is clearly surprised and disturbed his affair is known to Marg. And it's only natural he's disturbed. Whether his affair is with an unrelated woman or with his wife's brother, makes no difference in that regard - she's still playing with his emotions in a very cruel way. (Not to mention the stupidity of Marg tutoring Renly about the ways of the court! How can TV Renly look like anything but a moron at that point? Like, wasn't he living in the court before the war, and not Margaery?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Up_Bxtch Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yeah, and that "different" is wrong. Not really, what you guys expecting her to be the Mad Queen? Really? I don't think that's the kind of Queen she's trying to portray. and if she was to react with more emotion it just would of felt weird like when Jorah tells her of Joffrey's death if she was to give a big smile it would of been both unnecessary and creepy, she just gave a little smirk which I accepted, because she's playing a stern queen, if she was to show a lot of emotion it just wouldn't seem right at all, Jorah: King Joffrey is dead Khaleesi.... Dany: OH HAPPY DAY PRAISE THE GODS!! no it just wouldn't of work so I think she did good with what was expected of her in the scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 As for Emilia, I'm not a fan of her acting abilities, but I have to give her some slack. With lines D&D keep writing for the character, no actress would shine. Just look at the ending scene of this season's episode three, when Meereen's champion comes out to challenge hers. The guys starts pulling his equipment out to take a leak, and she asks: "What is he doing?" What is he doing??!! Well, take a wild guess, sister! He is: A) about to send a raven; B ) flirting with Jorah; C) insulting your army by pissing in your direction. Take your time, khaleesi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targarayen Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I agree so much. I'm sick of Daenery's scenes. They're all just her shouting 'justice, justice'. We don't see any emotion like we do in the books. You don't see how she feels frightened and lonely, how she opens up to Jorah. It's all just too much. I don't know how they're going to do the scene where Ser Barristan reveals Jorah's original intentions, because he was never 'Whitebeard'. So that'll be interesting to see, I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklinson Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 If anything, I actually think she overdoes her acting. She would be great on stage, but not really for screen. When she's supposed to be yelling/asserting/commanding she opens her mouth as wide as possible to do so. And she overdoes the "regal" thing and the "serious" face and when she's walking through the crowds in Meereen I get a more "most popular cheerleader in high school" as opposed to queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Exactly, do these people not realize this is Emilia's FIRST big role in career? She's not even been acting that long Jesus Christ and people are acting like she's been acting like 20 years.... I think she's doing fine, I've seen WAYYY worse actors and I've seen a lot of movies and tv shows, I'll be going to school for acting real soon, and while I'll admit some stuff she says is cringe worthy, these guys are comparing her to people with 20+ years experience(Lena Headey) in the industry and expecting her to be as good it's ridiculous.... Actually, upthread we were comparing her to Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner, neither of which had ever acted professionally prior to Game of Thrones and who have been consistently knocking it out of the ballpark since s1. Would you expect a baseball rookie to play poorly because it's his first season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Nearly 20 entries here for a ship that has sailed. Emilia is there till the end. I am guessing Dany's story will carry through to novel 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Now, I don't know if it's just incompetent writing, or perhaps D&D wanted for the audience to see Margaery as a despicable manipulator to whom literally nothing is sacred (which would've been an incompetent storytelling, considering what they've done with Margaery later on), but this scene can't help but paint her as a sick individual. And yes, at first she does suggest for Loras to join them. Her second sentence: "Or he can get you started?", means Loras would only get Renly excited and then leave. Now, I'm not sure it's practically possible, but OK, let's say that was on her mind. But, in that light, her first proposition means only one thing, as far as I can see. Her possible motives and ambitions help her in no way. I mean, Cersei's ambitions doesn't absolve her of anything, right? Why would Marg's absolve her, then? This isn't really the thread for this, but I actually liked this change, and I saw it as a positive for Margaery. What's best for Renly is to get an heir, she accepts that he's gay and instead of judging him for it and trying to change him, she accepts it and tries to make it easier for Renly. We clearly just read the scene in different ways (or I'm misunderstanding your point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Up_Bxtch Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Actually, upthread we were comparing her to Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner, neither of which had ever acted professionally prior to Game of Thrones and who have been consistently knocking it out of the ballpark since s1. Would you expect a baseball rookie to play poorly because it's his first season? I feel Emilia is more of a stage actor, stage actors usually aren't too great at on screen acting, she might get better I still think she's better than a lot of other actors on the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miodrag Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 This isn't really the thread for this, but I actually liked this change, and I saw it as a positive for Margaery. What's best for Renly is to get an heir, she accepts that he's gay and instead of judging him for it and trying to change him, she accepts it and tries to make it easier for Renly. We clearly just read the scene in different ways (or I'm misunderstanding your point.) But, a couple of episodes later, while talking with Littlefinger right by Renly's corpse, she says that next time around she want's to be The Queen. In hindsight, it hardly means she was thinking about Renly at all. But, if you ask me, we don't even need a hindsight, because the scene with Renly should be enough: talking so openly and in such a utilitarian manner about things Renly holds sacred (his relationship with Loras) is not the sign of a sympathy. We agree on two points, though: 1) everyone's entitled to interpret the scene as one wants, and 2) this is too big a derail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 We've gone off topic with Marg and Loris, regarding Renly.. but I'd like to add that I presumed brother and sister would BOTH be in there, with Loris getting things started and Marg finishing him off, with the overall intent of her getting pregnant. I took her agenda to be one of "ok.. my husband is gay, but we DO need a child.. and fast!!" which is honourable of course. Also, to call her sick would be to forget about the Targaryan's and their antic's through the ages, as well as good old Cersei and Jaime. They're all at it, all deviant.. so let's just sit back and enjoy the show ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It is an odd quirk that in a show full of great acting, two of the weakest actors in the show, Kit and Emilia, are in for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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