HairGrowsBack Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I wonder if we will get the fight and if so, with whom. Out of the countless things that screamed wasted potential to me in s4 killing off Locke was one of the worst (such a funny character). I wish he stuck around to have few scenes with Jon on the Wall and then during his escape he would run into Bri who would avenge Jaime by killing him. Seriously. There was so much wasted potential it physically hurt. It would've been great on so many levels : emotional resonance, character development,... I don't get how they couldn't even think about it. Not only that, but I thought, "okay, no Locke, but they're reintroducing Rorge and Biter through Arya because she knows them, then they can somehow meet Brienne and have the fight"... only to end up with both of them being killed in the stupidest manner. I just :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I just reread the chapter where Brienne meets LSH and there's a lot of potential there for it to be merged with the ASOS epilogue. My above scenario where she fights Freys at the Inn at the Crossroads and the BWB intervene could be lead-in to a nice composite scene. Of course that's in the same ballpark as my previous wishful thinking before the finale aired and we all know how that worked out. But I'm more hopeful than I was then because now there's really no alternate route to go with Brienne next year. Unless they invent shit or just have her riding around describing Sansa, they have to go with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Seriously. There was so much wasted potential it physically hurt. It would've been great on so many levels : emotional resonance, character development,... I don't get how they couldn't even think about it. Not only that, but I thought, "okay, no Locke, but they're reintroducing Rorge and Biter through Arya because she knows them, then they can somehow meet Brienne and have the fight"... only to end up with both of them being killed in the stupidest manner. I just :dunno: It was such a waste of a good actor and fun character. Of all the people that are still alive they had to go and kill off the entertaining one while there was really no good reason to do that so soon. I just reread the chapter where Brienne meets LSH and there's a lot of potential there for it to be merged with the ASOS epilogue. My above scenario where she fights Freys at the Inn at the Crossroads and the BWB intervene could be lead-in to a nice composite scene. Of course that's in the same ballpark as my previous wishful thinking before the finale aired and we all know how that worked out. But I'm more hopeful than I was then because now there's really no alternate route to go with Brienne next year. Unless they invent shit or just have her riding around describing Sansa, they have to go with this. That's what I thought would happen in the finale. Brienne is injured in a fight and she is rescued/taken by BwB, Thoros introduces her to LS, casually dropping that she is hanging the Freys. That cave scene or wherever it was they met had such great imagery with Stoneheart sitting behind that table with the crown in her hands, shame they probably won't have anything to replace the crown with on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think we all believed in this scenario. I clung to it real hard up until the finale, and well...But then, as Konradsmith pointed out, it can still work out just fine in season 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrienneofQarth Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Even if Stoney does pop up in season 5, I think that season 4 has lost so much by not building up her storyline. The showrunners can't do everything in ASOIAF, but they could at least have captured the spirit of the books post Red Wedding. Even if GOT couldn't/won't show LSH, they could have showed more of the physical/human devastation that followed the RW. (I know there was the pageant scene in Ep2/Tywin in Ep1, but it just wasn't enough). D&D could easily have sacrificed the awful Missandei-Grey W/Craster's/Asha stuff for this. For me, what's been missing this series is the real sense of the Westeros - shaking shockwaves following the RW. I found this was the most awesome aspect of ASOS. LSH is a kind of 'Nemesis' figure, embodying the need for vengeance for the Starks. If her storyline does happen next season, it will be all the weaker for the 10+ hour chasm Season 4 has made between her death and resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Even if Stoney does pop up in season 5, I think that series 4 has lost so much by not building up her storyline. The showrunners can't do everything in ASOIAF, but they could at least have captured the spirit of the books post Red Wedding. Even if GOT couldn't/won't show LSH, they could have showed more of the physical/human devastation that followed the RW. (I know there was the pageant scene in Ep2/Tywin in Ep1, but it just wasn't enough). D&D could easily have sacrificed the awful Missandei-Grey W/Craster's/Asha stuff for this. For me, what's been missing this series is the real sense of the Westeros - shaking shockwaves following the RW. I found this was the most awesome aspect of ASOS. I kind of see LSH as a kind of 'Nemesis' figure, embodying the need for vengeance for the Starks. If her storyline does happen next season, it will be all the weaker for the 10+ hour chasm Season 4 has made between her death and resurrection. YES, very well said! There is just no sense of tragedy. They did something in 4x01/4x02 but what then? They could have Brienne being all depressed about Cat's death. They could have done a bit more with that scene in which Arya and Hound dine with that man and his little girl. They could do hell a lot more than have Bran talk about guest right and Sansa and Jon's 40second long reactions. The saddest thing so far in terms of aftermath was Hound's horrified and Arya's hopeless expression as the Freys mocked Robb. That's it. I think they already dropped the ball with Mhysa - the direwolf head on Robb's body was an atrociously paced scene - hell, I know people who didn't even register what happened. They could have had a real punch with showing him on the throne sitting on it, hell maybe even making it a season ending scene. That would be something no one would ever forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maiden Fair Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 plus this interview - indicate Fairley wanna play it i am pretty sure she knew when she took the role that her character will change drastically. interview with Headey and Fairley from this year. This is AFTER season 4 had long been finished for them: It's interesting that Fairley refuses to use the past tense. She also seems to be very eager to play a darker, more unhinged version of Catelyn, and says the character, who obviously died at the RW, is "still evolving". They both seemed terrified of saying anything too direct, (or possibly drunk) and it's kind of hilarious how they spoil Cersei's faithwalk. Still, a lot of very fun awkwardness in that video, even if it doesn't amount to anything ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 It's interesting that Fairley refuses to use the past tense. She also seems to be very eager to play a darker, more unhinged version of Catelyn, and says the character, who obviously died at the RW, is "still evolving". They both seemed terrified of saying anything too direct, (or possibly drunk) and it's kind of hilarious how they spoil Cersei's faithwalk. Still, a lot of very fun awkwardness in that video, even if it doesn't amount to anything ultimately. I really love Michelle. They chose perfect Cat and perfect Stoneheart - there were already times in the show when her wrath and lack of empathy were chilling. If I were going just by her interviews I'd say she is returning for sure, but the lack of her in s4 really threw me off and made me doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turncloak_ Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I don't see why he should have to phrase shit so delicately. He never said "stupid" btw. After all GrrM called Victarion "a dolt" and some people do seem to be Victarion fans, so that I guess would've offended them, not that he should give a shit. As for what's the worst episode of s3, I'd put my money on "Dark Wings, Dark Words". I actually didn't mind "Breaker of Chains" in the least. I thought it was a little slower than the two prior episodes of s4 had been but I was never outraged by it or anything. The Tywin lecture to Tommen seemed a little season one-y in a bad way (as in a ton of "as you know" exposition) but Charles Dance sold it for me.Actually GRRM called a Victorian a "brute" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turncloak_ Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Seriously. There was so much wasted potential it physically hurt. It would've been great on so many levels : emotional resonance, character development,... I don't get how they couldn't even think about it.Not only that, but I thought, "okay, no Locke, but they're reintroducing Rorge and Biter through Arya because she knows them, then they can somehow meet Brienne and have the fight"... only to end up with both of them being killed in the stupidest manner. I just :dunno:The way they killed Locke was criminal. One of the most interesting characters on the show. Wish Stannis would have killed him in the battle of Ice instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The way they killed Locke was criminal. One of the most interesting characters on the show. Wish Stannis would have killed him in the battle of Ice instead It was so disappointing too, because they really used him in a great way in s3 and his chemistry with Snow when they met in the beginning of s4 was great, they could have done so, so much. That would be a worthy death :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maiden Fair Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Old buzzfeed interview from just after the RW. Sorry if this is a repost.So Catelyn is dead, but in the books, she is not actually gone! She becomes Lady Stoneheart! Who has deep gashes in her face from scratching herself, can't speak because her throat was cut so deeply, and was in the river for a few days before being brought back to life. She marauds around killing Freys, plus anyone who might have done the Starks wrong, and appears occasionally going forward. Have you talked to Dan and David about Season 4?MF: Well, you'll just have to keep watching. You'll have to keep wattttttcccchhhhin'.The way Lady Stoneheart, zombie Catelyn, is described she's completely insane, basically.MF: I'm completely insane, so it mightn't be too much of an acting stretch!Were that to happen in the show's future, would that be fun?MF: No one knows, no one knows. Sorry, Kate!Oh my god I'm asking IN THEORY. You mentioned before that at the end, Catelyn is purely consumed by vengeance, and that seems to be the after-death version of her. Which seems to be great fodder.MF: Of course. For an actor to play something like that, I think visually it would be incredible. How do you portray evil, vengeance, lust for revenge? What does that do physically to a human being, what do they end up looking like? How do they attain it? The embodiment of that is something that would be incredibly exciting. Even evil people are justified. If you're playing a character like that, you have to find a way of liking them.Eta link: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/game-of-thrones-michelle-fairley-catelyn-interview-spoilers?s=mobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiffy Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Old buzzfeed interview from just after the RW. Sorry if this is a repost.So Catelyn is dead, but in the books, she is not actually gone! She becomes Lady Stoneheart! Who has deep gashes in her face from scratching herself, can't speak because her throat was cut so deeply, and was in the river for a few days before being brought back to life. She marauds around killing Freys, plus anyone who might have done the Starks wrong, and appears occasionally going forward. Have you talked to Dan and David about Season 4?MF: Well, you'll just have to keep watching. You'll have to keep wattttttcccchhhhin'.The way Lady Stoneheart, zombie Catelyn, is described she's completely insane, basically.MF: I'm completely insane, so it mightn't be too much of an acting stretch!Were that to happen in the show's future, would that be fun?MF: No one knows, no one knows. Sorry, Kate!Oh my god I'm asking IN THEORY. You mentioned before that at the end, Catelyn is purely consumed by vengeance, and that seems to be the after-death version of her. Which seems to be great fodder.MF: Of course. For an actor to play something like that, I think visually it would be incredible. How do you portray evil, vengeance, lust for revenge? What does that do physically to a human being, what do they end up looking like? How do they attain it? The embodiment of that is something that would be incredibly exciting. Even evil people are justified. If you're playing a character like that, you have to find a way of liking them.Eta link: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/game-of-thrones-michelle-fairley-catelyn-interview-spoilers?s=mobile well that certainly puts the nail in the coffin on those people saying she don't wanna play that character development ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Shocked that no one's linked to this article yet so I guess I'll do it. Pretty definitive unless they really, really want it to be a secret. http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/25/michelle-fairley-24-lady-stoneheart/ You couldn’t have missed the online furor over the lack of Lady Stoneheart in theThrones finale. Were you surprised by that attention?I actually haven’t seen any of that. I don’t look that stuff up. I avoid it like the plague. I was totally unaware.There was a lot of online conversation. I heard third-hand that you were basically told that it’s not likely to ever happen. Is that accurate?Yeah, the character’s dead. She’s dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Shocked that no one's linked to this article yet so I guess I'll do it. Pretty definitive unless they really, really want it to be a secret. http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/25/michelle-fairley-24-lady-stoneheart/ Well Catelyn is dead, so I'm not sure what's so definitive here? If she wasn't in she would say 'it's not happening', again not saying she is but this is even more bizarre response than previous ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well Catelyn is dead, so I'm not sure what's so definitive here? If she wasn't in she would say 'it's not happening', again not saying she is but this is even more bizarre response than previous ones Hibbard's specifically referring to LSH and not Catelyn and he's saying he heard that she's not appearing. Fairley says "yeah, the character's dead" and then goes on to say that they have to respect the writers' decision to streamline the story because they only have so much time. Now she could be lying outright to maintain some sort of surprise but that's a definitive direct answer to "Is LSH cut?" that we've never heard to this point. Also, Hibbard is really plugged in to the show happenings so if he's hearing she's almost definitely been cut, then that's something as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hibbard's specifically referring to LSH and not Catelyn and he's saying he heard that she's not appearing. Fairley says "yeah, the character's dead" and then goes on to say that they have to respect the writers' decision to streamline the story because they only have so much time. Now she could be lying outright to maintain some sort of surprise but that's a definitive direct answer to "Is LSH cut?" that we've never heard to this point. Also, Hibbard is really plugged in to the show happenings so if he's hearing she's almost definitely been cut, then that's something as well. Well if she is out, f--ck that show because she is my #1 thing I look forward to and it's the final straw. I'd only watch that show for Stannis if they cut awesome character/twist like that. I've gotta say all this 'will she be in/will she be out' combined with the interviews in which they may or may not be lying to fans + calling that story arc unnecessary are just tiring and to be honest show very little regard for book readers in the fanbase, It's also would bloody terrible writing - all the hints and groundwork laid for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Oy. It's not sounding good. At this point I'll take her comment at face-value, and if I'm pleasantly surprised later, then great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Oy. It's not sounding good. At this point I'll take her comment at face-value, and if I'm pleasantly surprised later, then great. Man, I used to love this show once :/ I really hope that they are just trying to silence 'she will be in next season rumors'. If they can't make definite statements I wish they wouldn't address it at all because it's just confusing. Also wow, if the people who included that Missandai/Dany 'just how much of Grey Worm's dick is left' conversation omit LS...I think I'm gonna experience hatewatching for the first time ever starting next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiffy Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 D and D is piece of shits if they have done that. What was even the point of BWB, Oatkeeper sword, putting Brienne with Pod, keep refering to Brienne oath and pledge to Cat. This is just cruel trolling to all the book readers that wanted to see LS put to screen. D and D are shits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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