Zombies That Were Promised Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 not sure if you guys saw this. http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/06/17/game-of-thrones-finale-why-that-character-didn-t-appear-1518706?lt_source=external,manual,manual,manual#!0KNkZ ^Yes, this was posted a few pages back. No biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yeah, it's a whole article that purports to reveal the reasons why she was left out and if she's coming back and all they do is talk to a guy who basically says "Yeah, they don't really tell me anything so who knows?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimSVM Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 They've got to bring her back for this role. How much time could it possibly take to shoot? Her resurrection was the most shocking thing I've read in these books, and could look crazy given the GoT production values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The idea that asoiaf has no heroes and villains is just another misread of the materials. There are plenty of heroes and villains in the story. It's just sometimes hard to identify which is which since, as GRRM himself said, everyone thinks they are the hero of their story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 There are very clear villains in GoT, you're right, Ramsay, Joffrey, Walder Frey etc. Their point about Tywin though was that he was what TV tropes calls "the good chancellor" he actually did a good job and was maybe the best guy for keeping things stable. That's not entirely true since he escalated the WotFK in a big way, but essentially the point was there was more to him than that. Especially as played by Charles Dance. I didn't deny that he was a heartless asshole, of course he is, but sometimes heartless assholes make good leaders. Given the topic of this thread and our semantic discussion on villainy, do we all think that LSH qualifies as one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 There are very clear villains in GoT, you're right, Ramsay, Joffrey, Walder Frey etc. Their point about Tywin though was that he was what TV tropes calls "the good chancellor" he actually did a good job and was maybe the best guy for keeping things stable. That's not entirely true since he escalated the WotFK in a big way, but essentially the point was there was more to him than that. Especially as played by Charles Dance. I didn't deny that he was a heartless asshole, of course he is, but sometimes heartless assholes make good leaders. Given the topic of this thread and our semantic discussion on villainy, do we all think that LSH qualifies as one? I think, symbolically, she's the monster at the end of Brienne's quest, in a typical knighthood tale. That's how she's meant to appear, on the surface. However, since we're dealing with ASoIaF, she's much more than that : there's still a little bit of Catelyn in her, with her losses and grief. She's funfamentally a tragic character with typical monstruous traits, but I wouldn't qualify her as a villain comparable to the likes of Ramsay, Joff or Gregor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 She's certainly an antagonist. And may end up being the last foe Jaime and/or Brienne ever face... For that reason, she is likely to appear. Maybe they'll resolve all of that funny business next year. The LSH/BWB funny business and the Battle of Ice both have me in conniptions worrying about wtf is going to happen. I would love for them both to be resolved on the show in season 5 because waiting on TWOW is the worst kind of waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Absolutely. No one is suggesting that Tywin is a nice guy, or even necessarily that he has some redeemable qualities. He might be strong, charismatic, loyal to his family, and a good leader in the Machiavellian sense, but yes, he's also done a lot of pretty awful things. His "good" qualities don't redeem him in any way, or help to balance out the "evil" of his character. Labelling him a villain is demeaning to the character that both GRRM and Charles Dance have brought to life, because he is so much more than a classic, two-dimensional villain. Sure, it's probably safe to say that he's not a good guy, but a villain? ASoIaF is a world where there are no villains and heroes. Isn't that the point? I don't think people admire Tywin or wish they were like him, but they certainly respect him as a character. Definitely enough to not slot him into a box labeled villain. Pretty much. Look at it this way: if Tyrion hadn't killed him and had Tywin managed to stabilise the Seven Kingdoms (much like he did as Aerys' Hand), he'd be remembered in history books as a great statesman that saved the realm. The point is, he is much more than a prototypical villain. Therefore, even using the term is misleading at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 She's certainly an antagonist. And may end up being the last foe Jaime and/or Brienne ever face... For that reason, she is likely to appear. Maybe they'll resolve all of that funny business next year. The LSH/BWB funny business and the Battle of Ice both have me in conniptions worrying about wtf is going to happen. I would love for them both to be resolved on the show in season 5 because waiting on TWOW is the worst kind of waiting. Agreed. Plus it would make sense timeline-wise, since Jaime's been gone "for weeks" by the time Cersei is preparing for her WoS. But mostly I need to know what the hell happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Was he entirely serious when he said that? I always interpreted it as hyperbole. And I assume he was talking more about Walter White's descent into Heisenberg. We don't have a character in ASoIaF who undergoes quite the same transformation. Towards evil, anyway. Although Dany and Arya are getting close... I thought he sounded serious. Not sure about the descent thing - one can argue for example Catelyn did that transformed to LS, sure there were external things that influenced that but I think especially in the show they portrayed that her good qualities died sooner than she did upon seeing Robb's body fall on the ground. Then there are all those speculation about people who may soon snap - Dany, Stannis, Arya, Sansa... I actually always found Walt to be a good person who got lost and started doing horrible things. But he is nowhere near Ramsay, Mountain or Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eunuch Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It seems clear now that Lady Stoneheart will be Brienne's interest for season 5. A few scenes looking for Sansa/Arya, a few meetings with people talking about a hooded Lady hanging Freys, and then, the last scene of Brienne's arc for season 5 is the big reveal. I would have loved to see Stoneheart at the season 4 finale but it would not have made sense, because she would have been absent from the whole next season... It's like saying "Hey, look! Catelyn is still alive and wants revenge!! But you won't see her again until next season finale for 1 minute...". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 ^Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reek Havoc Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I'm sure some of you have seen this article, but unless I missed something, I haven't seen it in this thread: Alex Graves on the scene fans were expecting to see But to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while — and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we’re really going to like? It just didn’t end up being a part of what was going to happen this season. And finally one reason, in case you didn’t notice, a lot happens this season … To add that in is something they opted out of. Color coded to point out two points. Red Quote - attitude in regards to Lady Stoneheart in general?Blue Quote - too much going on in Season 4 (meaning there may be hope for next season?) So do D&D dislike the idea of bringing Lady Stoneheart into the picture at all, or is this said in an effort to throw us off so we can be surprised next season? I'm just so confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yeah, we've talked about that interview a good deal. We've yet to hear from D and D on the matter though. My assumption is that they'll have to include her unless they can think of some other way to force Brienne into trapping/betraying Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reek Havoc Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yeah, we've talked about that interview a good deal. We've yet to hear from D and D on the matter though. My assumption is that they'll have to include her unless they can think of some other way to force Brienne into trapping/betraying Jaime. Unless they decide not to do that, either... Also, it may depend on what happens next in that story arc in the books. If both Jaime and Brienne survive Lady Stoneheart, they may see no reason to cover it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiffy Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Unless they decide not to do that, either... Also, it may depend on what happens next in that story arc in the books. If both Jaime and Brienne survive Lady Stoneheart, they may see no reason to cover it. of course they do. Dany has not done anyhing on the show either other then move build on her army that is all she has done. she will be on the show how anyone can even question that now is ridiculous really. If you have read the books and seen the hints on the show they have already given us. They already gave Brienne the storyline to meet her - Oathkeeper and Oath to Cat and for her to show up the group she leads - BWB,Thoros, Berics resurrection, sansa mentioning throat cut thrown into river.. They had the family Arya and the Hound was with say that Freys will pay for killing guests at RW.. Yeah they would not incude all that if LS is not on the show. Because then that would just not make any sense at Just because they skipped over the epilogue for a season finale which in fact they could still show next season if they want to all Hell they could even have killed her in another way at RW if she was cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yushkevitch Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I would have loved to see Stoneheart at the season 4 finale but it would not have made sense, because she would have been absent from the whole next season... It's like saying "Hey, look! Catelyn is still alive and wants revenge!! But you won't see her again until next season finale for 1 minute...". Kind of like showing the WWs marching south at the end of season 2 ... and then pretty much not showing them (the army that is) again for the next 2 full seasons? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Unless they decide not to do that, either... Also, it may depend on what happens next in that story arc in the books. If both Jaime and Brienne survive Lady Stoneheart, they may see no reason to cover it. Well in any case I doubt GRRM would reunite them for naught, even if they survive. So either one of them dies (please no), or they're set up for something later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 All I know is that if there is a Red Wedding 2.0 it would make GREAT TV. That would be some of the most cathartic shit ever! Of course it would make for better reading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 All I know is that if there is a Red Wedding 2.0 it would make GREAT TV. That would be some of the most cathartic shit ever! Of course it would make for better reading... That would be amazing, although I kind of feel GRRM would need to compensate our satisfaction with a beloved character's death and/or suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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