(Spoilers for Non-Readers) Stoneheart S4

[Baelor Swyft]

I would contest the notion that Joffrey's death was supposed to soothe reactions to the Red Wedding. It's been made clear his death had the opposite intention, to specifically not give viewers/readers satisfaction and for it to just be a pathetic child choking to death. But then again, a lot of people were pretty happy about it anyway, so perhaps he has a point.

Honestly, even though I think it would have been the best possible season-ending scene... Bringing her in next season does make a certain bit of sense. They can confine her and her arc to that single season so they don't have to pay Michelle two paychecks. I do think ultimately they'll bring her in... but at this point only time will tell.

[sati]

I would contest the notion that Joffrey's death was supposed to soothe reactions to the Red Wedding. It's been made clear his death had the opposite intention, to specifically not give viewers/readers satisfaction and for it to just be a pathetic child choking to death. But then again, a lot of people were pretty happy about it anyway, so perhaps he has a point.

Honestly, even though I think it would have been the best possible season-ending scene... Bringing her in next season does make a certain bit of sense. They can confine her and her arc to that single season so they don't have to pay Michelle two paychecks. I do think ultimately they'll bring her in... but at this point only time will tell.

The thing is RW is still fresh in people's minds now. A year from now? I don't think so. Yes they will remember it but not as well as they do now. And if Jon is about to have similar plot point in his future, 2 so close together will be cheap.

[wiffy]

i don't even think Jon is dead..

[wandering]

People need to untwist their knickers, she'll 100% be in. Though with all this wailing from book readers i'd imagine a LOT of the show only people will know who and what Lady Stoneheart is by then.

[TheWeepingMan]

The thing is RW is still fresh in people's minds now. A year from now? I don't think so. Yes they will remember it but not as well as they do now. And if Jon is about to have similar plot point in his future, 2 so close together will be cheap.

I would not say that GoT is written with a viewer with the attention span of a goldfish in mind. Quite the opposite.

[Ser Hugh BuckweII]

Alex Graves"I have no idea what they plan to do about that because honestly, it just wasn’t talked about."

And you never thought to fucking BRING IT UP????

[sati]

I would not say that GoT is written with a viewer with the attention span of a goldfish in mind. Quite the opposite.

Yeah some changes like 'Only your sister' and lack of Tysha mentions really make your argument valid here.

[ebevan91]

How do they not even BRING UP Stoneheart in the season 4 production? Not one of those guys thought to say "hey what about Stoneheart?"????????

[sati]

How do they not even BRING UP Stoneheart in the season 4 production? Not one of those guys thought to say "hey what about Stoneheart?"????????

The only explanation is that this is what was happening every day in the writers room - http://37.media.tumblr.com/41b4a791f077abc18f6a98a620082cd3/tumblr_mz8ww1LSxs1s04obno1_250.gif

[Seneti]

Is anybody else even a little disturbed by how the pattern of coping measure repeats itself?

Last year on this board:

1) This is awesome! LS for last scene!

2) *episode airs* No LS, oh god, I'm gonna cry! What have they done?
3) *random book reader 1* I told you not to get your hopes up. D&D suck.

4) *random book reader 2* She's not cut from the show, just delayed. Wait till next year.

5) *disappointed book reader* Yeah, you're right. She'll totally be there. This will be awesome!

Rinse and repeat. It kind of makes me cringe.

[King Tommen]

How do they not even BRING UP Stoneheart in the season 4 production? Not one of those guys thought to say "hey what about Stoneheart?"????????

Alex Graves is not in the writing room. He's a director given a finished script to shoot. He has very little to do with the creative direction of the show. D&D and Brian Cogman (and probably GRRM on consultation basis) are the only ones having those conversations and it's D&D's M.O. to not talk about the decisions after they're made. It's their prerogative.

Obviously, the decision on what to do with LSH would be a major one and it probably was long and drawn out. We just aren't going to be privy to what it was because the showrunners rarely if ever talk about that stuff. And just to be clear, this isn't a unique trait when it comes to showrunners. Try and get David Chase to say much of anything behind the choices for the Sopranos or Matt Weiner to discuss Mad Men on any level and you'll see this is just how it works. They don't want the audiences to see into their creative processes because they'd like what's up on the screen to speak for itself to some extent. Additionally, many of these decisions are driven not by writer's whims but by some sort of production reality involved with the show and you'll never hear anyone talk about that stuff because it's not for the audience to know.

[Flayed Starkman]

Is anybody else even a little disturbed by how the pattern of coping measure repeats itself?

Last year on this board:

1) This is awesome! LS for last scene!

2) *episode airs* No LS, oh god, I'm gonna cry! What have they done?

3) *random book reader 1* I told you not to get your hopes up. D&D suck.

4) *random book reader 2* She's not cut from the show, just delayed. Wait till next year.

5) *disappointed book reader* Yeah, you're right. She'll totally be there. This will be awesome!

Rinse and repeat. It kind of makes me cringe.

I was actually expecting her last year, because I thought it would be the best place to introduce her (also considering the finale was titled effin' "Mhysa"), but I wasn't too bummed out, as she appears in the end of ASOS, so I waited. I was almost sure she would appear this year, also considering they've name-dropped Catelyn all season (more than any other offscreen character).

I was mad at first, but now I really don't care. The show is overtaking the books, so I will not be watching next season

[Ondskapsmannen]

I do not think Stoneheart wil appear in the TV show, and I'm ok with that. Seemed a bit unneccessary in the books too.

I'm really looking forward to future seasons, and seeing how they do things differently from the books adds to the fun.

If the book series is ever finished we will have two seperate stories, and that is ok. They are both good so far (book, and show).

[sati]

Alex Graves is not in the writing room. He's a director given a finished script to shoot. He has very little to do with the creative direction of the show. D&D and Brian Cogman (and probably GRRM on consultation basis) are the only ones having those conversations and it's D&D's M.O. to not talk about the decisions after they're made. It's their prerogative.

Obviously, the decision on what to do with LSH would be a major one and it probably was long and drawn out. We just aren't going to be privy to what it was because the showrunners rarely if ever talk about that stuff. And just to be clear, this isn't a unique trait when it comes to showrunners. Try and get David Chase to say much of anything behind the choices for the Sopranos or Matt Weiner to discuss Mad Men on any level and you'll see this is just how it works. They don't want the audiences to see into their creative processes because they'd like what's up on the screen to speak for itself to some extent. Additionally, many of these decisions are driven not by writer's whims but by some sort of production reality involved with the show and you'll never hear anyone talk about that stuff because it's not for the audience to know.

Then maybe he should stop talking about things he has absolutely no idea about.

[Konradsmith]

Well apparently he knows the fate of some of the characters so that is something. It's also interesting that they were iffy on how to pull off LSH as far back as season 3. It's not Graves's fault they didn't put her in yet anyways. And they will eventually because she is necessary. Unless they have another plot point waiting in the wings that effectively confronts Jaime and Brienne with their vows and potentially kills off one or both of them.

[sati]

Well apparently he knows the fate of some of the characters so that is something. It's also interesting that they were iffy on how to pull off LSH as far back as season 3. It's not Graves's fault they didn't put her in yet anyways. And they will eventually because she is necessary. Unless they have another plot point waiting in the wings that effectively confronts Jaime and Brienne with their vows and potentially kills off one or both of them.

It is his fault though for talking shit about character and adding fuel to the fire for the legions of disappointed. Second time he did that this year. Qualifying LS as a 'zombie' is just an insult to Martin and the book readers. Not to mention his tone suggests it's people's fault when ALL Graves and shorunners did this season in interviews was hyping that finale to the max.

[HairGrowsBack]

Well apparently he knows the fate of some of the characters so that is something. It's also interesting that they were iffy on how to pull off LSH as far back as season 3. It's not Graves's fault they didn't put her in yet anyways. And they will eventually because she is necessary. Unless they have another plot point waiting in the wings that effectively confronts Jaime and Brienne with their vows and potentially kills off one or both of them.

Don't tempt them.

If she's in next season, then they are very bad at their selling their stuff ; you just don't call one of your future arc a "lame zombie killing people".

[Konradsmith]

There was a lot of stuff worthy of hyping and apparently they never planned to have her in s4. Had they adequately set her up throughout the season with Frey and BWB scenes or even mentions, then the finale would have been improved by her appearance. Since they didn't do that though, they couldn't exactly tag her on the ending out of the blue. That wouldn't have worked since every finale so far has been built towards significantly throughout the season.

Though I do think they'll do her next season, it is a fair point that Graves talking about her like that doesn't bode too well for her chances. Though he is out of the season 5 loop.

Also James Hibberd, who is essentially HBO's mouthpiece writing about how he thinks she ought to be cut, might mean that they're floating the idea through him. I dunno. I still think we'll get her. If built up correctly, having her in season 5 could turn out just fine. But I've been wrong before.

[Frey Pies]

I'm pretty sure she'll appear in early in Season 5 (though I don't care either way- always hated that character). Season 4 already had a lot of awesomeness for viewers- everyone seems to have been satisfied (unlike with seasons 2&3, and season 1 for many show only viewers). Regardless of the final scene, which turned out to actually be really good, people were going to tune in any for Season 5 ways. The trick would be to keep the hype going, and the perfect way to do that is to have Stoneheart appear. Rather than her appearing once this season and then only once the next (which would would have made the audience pretty pissed seeing as how they did this with the S1&2 endings too), she'll probably be a constant presence throughout next season (either through being or screen or being responsible for character motivation). I think this will work better- most of the disappointment probably stems from viewer impatience, in my opinion. The finale didn't need it, and season 5 will.

[sati]

There was a lot of stuff worthy of hyping and apparently they never planned to have her in s4. Had they adequately set her up throughout the season with Frey and BWB scenes or even mentions, then the finale would have been improved by her appearance. Since they didn't do that though, they couldn't exactly tag her on the ending out of the blue. That wouldn't have worked since every finale so far has been built towards significantly throughout the season.

Though I do think they'll do her next season, it is a fair point that Graves talking about her like that doesn't bode too well for her chances. Though he is out of the season 5 loop.

Also James Hibberd, who is essentially HBO's mouthpiece writing about how he thinks she ought to be cut, might mean that they're floating the idea through him. I dunno. I still think we'll get her. If built up correctly, having her in season 5 could turn out just fine. But I've been wrong before.

Hibberd and Graves with their troll worthy she is 'lame and unnecessary' comments along with D&D's 'Tywin is not a villain' make me so very hopeful for the bright future of the show once Martin's guidance and source material end.