(Spoilers for Non-Readers) Stoneheart S4

[Sword of the Morgan]

I think it is very possible that they saved LS for the "big event" in either ep 9 or 10 of season 5 b/c there is no obviously ending point near the middle of either AFFC or ADWD. It seems likely that they'll skip the Frey intro to her and simply use the Brienne meeting. They could build to it throughout the season with allusions to a new leader of the BWB during Brienne's travels. However, they could shock us and simply do it in episode 2 or 3.

[FreeParking]

I think it is very possible that they saved LS for the "big event" in either ep 9 or 10 of season 5 b/c there is no obviously ending point near the middle of either AFFC or ADWD. It seems likely that they'll skip the Frey intro to her and simply use the Brienne meeting. They could build to it throughout the season with allusions to a new leader of the BWB during Brienne's travels. However, they could shock us and simply do it in episode 2 or 3.

Sorry, but could you please clarify what you mean by "no ending point near the middle of either AFFC/ADWD?

[Konradsmith]

If she's in, her intro would make more sense in the mid-season. That way they could have time to resolve that entire plotline this season if necessary.

[FalseKnight]

I think it is very possible that they saved LS for the "big event" in either ep 9 or 10 of season 5 b/c there is no obviously ending point near the middle of either AFFC or ADWD. It seems likely that they'll skip the Frey intro to her and simply use the Brienne meeting. They could build to it throughout the season with allusions to a new leader of the BWB during Brienne's travels. However, they could shock us and simply do it in episode 2 or 3.

The midpoint of AFfC/ADwD will happen no later than episode six.

[kubricklynch]

Sorry, but could you please clarify what you mean by "no ending point near the middle of either AFFC/ADWD?

I think they are assuming that AFFC/ADWD will take place over 2 seasons. So the season finale would need to be at about the middle of AFFC/ADWD,

[JustAnObsessedFan]

Could be an epic closing scene for S5.

[FreeParking]

I think they are assuming that AFFC/ADWD will take place over 2 seasons. So the season finale would need to be at about the middle of AFFC/ADWD,

That is what I thought they might be saying as well and was going to point out that AFFC/ADWD will be mostly done in one season, but I wanted to be sure first.

[jbent87]

Could be an epic closing scene for S5.

But still nowhere near as epic as it could have been.

Obviously we're not in the writers room or know how they're tackling this entire thing but the SH reveal to close the first 3 books worth of material in season 4, 10 episodes after her death would have been epic. Half of the Unsullied arent even going to know who she is at this point if they even decide to introduce her. I'll go as far to say that if they introduce her now it will be a "jump the shark" moment for most unsullied.

[FreeParking]

But still nowhere near as epic as it could have been.

Obviously we're not in the writers room or know how they're tackling this entire thing but the SH reveal to close the first 3 books worth of material in season 4, 10 episodes after her death would have been epic. Half of the Unsullied arent even going to know who she is at this point if they even decide to introduce her. I'll go as far to say that if they introduce her now it will be a "jump the shark" moment for most unsullied.

I think it will be a jump the shark moment for many unsullied regardless of when she shows up.

[Blazfemur]

honestly, if she was to be in the season 4 finale, people would have guessed it straight from the "previously on" montage at the beginning of episode ten. if she was the cliffhanger, they wouldve "previously on"'ed with the scene of her gettign her throat cut, sansa saying "they killed my mother", etc etc. too many giveaways that she'd be there.

now, if they saved her for let's say, season 5, episode 1... the "previously on" before the episode of the season would give a synopsis on EVERYTHING that has happened up to this point, which WOULD include that scene of her throat getting cut, and sansa saying they killed her. And people would know none the wiser that they were just reminding you, just to bring her back.

If thats how it's played out, it was a remarkable set up.

[sati]

honestly, if she was to be in the season 4 finale, people would have guessed it straight from the "previously on" montage at the beginning of episode ten. if she was the cliffhanger, they wouldve "previously on"'ed with the scene of her gettign her throat cut, sansa saying "they killed my mother", etc etc. too many giveaways that she'd be there.

now, if they saved her for let's say, season 5, episode 1... the "previously on" before the episode of the season would give a synopsis on EVERYTHING that has happened up to this point, which WOULD include that scene of her throat getting cut, and sansa saying they killed her. And people would know none the wiser that they were just reminding you, just to bring her back.

If thats how it's played out, it was a remarkable set up.

I'm not sure the non book reading audience would pick up on that. However, after straight up showing Stannis' Mhysa scene in finale of season4 previously on, I wouldn't count on any smart 'previously on' in the future

[RooseIsLoose]

Michelle saying she isn't returning dosen't tell us anything, it's not as though she's going to confirm her dead character is returning. I can see her being introduced at the moment where she captures Brienne.

[Hodor!!!]

I think it will be a jump the shark moment for many unsullied regardless of when she shows up.

It will be a jump the shark moment for me as a book reader as well. I thought the exact same thing when I read the prologue.

[FreeParking]

It will be a jump the shark moment for me as a book reader as well. I thought the exact same thing when I read the prologue.

Yeah, at first when I read it I was shocked. Then when that passed I was annoyed. For a series known for killing off characters to bring back a main character who died in one of the most memorable moments in the series really left a bad taste in my mouth. Beric was a secondary character at best and most of the wights were faceless nobodies. Bringing back Cat as a revengeful zombie, which is really all she has done so far in three books, was weak. It also felt like the start of a real problem that GRRM had in AFFC/ADWD with fake out deaths. I just don't get tense anymore that someone might die. When people do die I have to run a checklist in my head to think if it was a fake out in any way. That it not enjoyable. Does anybody really think Jon is dead?

[FalseKnight]

Yeah, at first when I read it I was shocked. Then when that passed I was annoyed. For a series known for killing off characters to bring back a main character who died in one of the most memorable moments in the series really left a bad taste in my mouth. Beric was a secondary character at best and most of the wights were faceless nobodies. Bringing back Cat as a revengeful zombie, which is really all she has done so far in three books, was weak. It also felt like the start of a real problem that GRRM had in AFFC/ADWD with fake out deaths. I just don't get tense anymore that someone might die. When people do die I have to run a checklist in my head to think if it was a fake out in any way. That it not enjoyable. Does anybody really think Jon is dead?

No one believes Jon died because GRRM abused the maybe--maybe not--death plot. Deaths of ice and fire are merely a suggestion now.

[JustAnObsessedFan]

But still nowhere near as epic as it could have been.

Obviously we're not in the writers room or know how they're tackling this entire thing but the SH reveal to close the first 3 books worth of material in season 4, 10 episodes after her death would have been epic. Half of the Unsullied arent even going to know who she is at this point if they even decide to introduce her. I'll go as far to say that if they introduce her now it will be a "jump the shark" moment for most unsullied.

Definitely wouldn't be a 'jump the shark' moment - if Stoneheart was fiction of D&D's, then it would be JTS. It happens in the narrative.

[yanmaodao]

I haven't reached the LSH part of the books yet, so my opinion will be different from those who read of her in the books before ever watching the show and growing to love her character. But she has to be cut. The showrunners have stated that the show's universe of characters has to start decreasing now, and I agree with this sentiment. There's no feasible way of doing this without cutting unique locations, and it already looks like season 5 will find it near impossible to do this; so at the very least, they can't keep expanding the number. The Riverlands is an obvious cut.

Season 3: King's Landing, the Wall, Slaver's Bay, Bran & co., Dreadfort, Arya & Gendry & Hot Pie (later the Hound), Dragonstone, Jaime & Brienne, Robb Stark's camp.

Season 4: King's Landing, the Wall, Meereen, Bran & co., Dreadfort, Hound & Arya, the Vale.

Season 5: King's Landing, the Wall, Meereen, Pentos/random Essos, Bran & co., the North (I really hope they don't cut the non-Wall parts of the Northern storyline here, from what I know of it), Braavos, the Vale, Dorne.

Now, "King's Landing" actually represented multiple character-locations in a way in the past, so I don't think narrowing down the characters will be as hopeless as it looks up there. The easiest ones to cut are those that only feature one or two major characters. If not Lady Stoneheart and the remnants of the Brotherhood without Banners, who else is there? Cutting Arya in Braavos is out of the question. We already know Dorne will be included. I hope that cutting the North is also out of the question. The Vale looks like it could be, but actors have to be kept under contract; they can't just drop them for a season. (Hence why the flimsy Yara/Asha failed rescue scene was shoehorned in, I believe.) The show will need Sophie Turner and Aiden Gillen going forward a lot more than Michelle Fairley. That leaves Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood, the Iron Islands, Jaime, and Brienne & Pod. The latter two will be subsumed into other locales. We already know Jaime is heading to Dorne. Brienne & Pod will be likewise, most likely to the Vale, since they already ended season 4 there. And I suspect a lot of people will complain about the latter, but I really don't think the showrunners have any other choice.

[sati]

So what you are saying is that they should just go ahead and cut the response to the Red Wedding? Because one of the most ridiculous things about s4 is that after the most gigantic thing in s3 happened all we had were some half-assed scenes with 2 or 3 characters being sad and that was the whole response to RW so far. It's bad storytelling.

I rather they cut Sansa's ridiculous scenes and certainly all the pointless Missandai/Grey Worm filler. There is time, they are just using it on the pointless things. After the burping whore in the tavern and all the talking in Watchers on the Wall episode anyone claiming 'there is no time' is really not gonna be a whole lot convincing.

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

To them, it is easier for them to use the Brienne meeting. It looks like how they are setting it up for Season 5. They might have to use a different actress since Michelle will be on Resurrection.

[sati]

To them, it is easier for them to use the Brienne meeting. It looks like how they are setting it up for Season 5. They might have to use a different actress since Michelle will be on Resurrection.

I'm sure she'll have time for one scene. Actors on the show star in several shows at the same time all the time. They cannot use another actress for Stoneheart that would be just stupid.