hollowcrown Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 So it recently occurred to me that Benjen might know of Jon's parentage (R+L=J). He was apparently very close to Lyanna and I can imagine Ned telling him the true story of Jon's birth, making him the only person apart from Howland and Ned to possibly know the truth. If Benjen did know what really happened with Lyanna and the truth of if Rhaegar kidnapped her or not, why didn't he say anything? I can imagine him confiding in Brandon but Brandon being too hot-headed to listen to him, leading to Benjen possibly feeling guilty for the whole war and leaving to the Night's Watch as he felt so guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireAndBlood. Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 If he knew, he would have said nothing because Robert would have had Jon killed if he found out the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 So it recently occurred to me that Benjen might know of Jon's parentage (R+L=J). He was apparently very close to Lyanna and I can imagine Ned telling him the true story of Jon's birth, making him the only person apart from Howland and Ned to possibly know the truth. If Benjen did know what really happened with Lyanna and the truth of if Rhaegar kidnapped her or not, why didn't he say anything? I can imagine him confiding in Brandon but Brandon being too hot-headed to listen to him, leading to Benjen possibly feeling guilty for the whole war and leaving to the Night's Watch as he felt so guilty. Because he knew Eddard was Jon's father by Wylla? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 At the time of Lyanna's supposed abduction, Brandon was in the South and Lyanna's whereabouts are unknown, so Benjen probably didn't have an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandros Megas Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 If r+l=j is indeen true, it's possible that the secret isn't as well kept as the reader is led to believe.BenJen might know and maybe Bowen Marsh also knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 If r+l=j is indeen true, it's possible that the secret isn't as well kept as the reader is led to believe.BenJen might know and maybe Bowen Marsh also knows.???Why, of all people, should Bowen Marsh know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandros Megas Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 ???Why, of all people, should Bowen Marsh know?Fellow crannogman, he might be Jyana's brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Marsh is not a crannogman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Marsh is not a crannogman. He is, but that doesn't make him Reed's brother in law. Nor would it make sense for him to blab to all the other Crannogmen about the biggest secret in the universe his liege lord and best friend told him to shut the hell up about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Being in the Neck and sworn to House Reed doesn't mean they are crannogmen. I don't recall Bowen ever being called or described as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 It's likely that Benjen knows. Ned wouldn't trust Catelyn with the secret, but I don't see why he wouldn't trust him. It's also possible Ned figured it out on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 He is, but that doesn't make him Reed's brother in law. Nor would it make sense for him to blab to all the other Crannogmen about the biggest secret in the universe his liege lord and best friend told him to shut the hell up about. He is not. He is of House Marsh of the North, and never described as short the way the crannogmen are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't see Ned telling Benjen if that breaks his promise. If it doesn't, then it would depend on how much he sees that information as a burden, and what value he sees in Benjen's knowing. If he never intended for Jon to make a claim based on his ancestry....which I think he didn't...then really, no one needs to know and telling anyone at all serves no purpose except to endanger them and Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozlym Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 hmm good question OP. i think there are 2 probable answers to this. 1. Ned never told Benjen the truth and kept his promise to Lyanna by not telling anyone of Jon. We must consider that Ned didn't even tell his wife Catelyn. 2.Benjen does know as he had a right being Lyanna's brother who loved her. But he has also kept Jons secret. This might explain why Benjen and Jon seem to have such a close relationship.This could also lead to why Benjen was trying to persuade Jon to take the black as he might have thought that it would be the safest place for him, and Ned didn't think to object to much about it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't see Ned telling Benjen if that breaks his promise. If it doesn't, then it would depend on how much he sees that information as a burden, and what value he sees in Benjen's knowing.If he never intended for Jon to make a claim based on his ancestry....which I think he didn't...then really, no one needs to know and telling anyone at all serves no purpose except to endanger them and Jon. :agree:If "don't tell anyone, ever" was a part of his promise to Lyanna, he wouldn't. Plus, he mentions secrets which are too dangerous to share, even with people he loves and trusts, which, IMHO, implies he wouldn't make Benjen privy to the secret. Whatever Benjen knew would have been what Lyanna confided to him and what he figured out on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Man Has Said Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 My take is that Benjen knew before anyone else that Lyanna was not 'abducted,' but went away with Rhaegar of her own accord.But he was sworn not to tell anyone that truth. The consequences of that, and his keeping to that promise, was the death of Rickard and Brandon Stark, and eventually Robert's Rebellion.BAD time to go all honourable about protecting the secret of your sister's dishonourable act, Benjen!(So beeyotch Lyanna goes and makes Ned make another promise to keep yet another of her secrets? That's fecked up.)Ned's keeping his similar vow also had bad consequences, including his own beheading and the Wo5Ks. I don't agree with the OP though. Benjen was in the north while Lyanna was in Dorne in the ToJ. They had no way of communicating with each other from the time she left until her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 He is not. He is of House Marsh of the North, and never described as short the way the crannogmen are. This would be House Marsh that has ten frogs in its heraldry? I guess he might be adopted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 :agree:If "don't tell anyone, ever" was a part of his promise to Lyanna, he wouldn't. Plus, he mentions secrets which are too dangerous to share, even with people he loves and trusts, which, IMHO, implies he wouldn't make Benjen privy to the secret. Whatever Benjen knew would have been what Lyanna confided to him and what he figured out on his own.Yeah, agreed. I also think that in general Ned and Benjen are private, non-communicative people about most things, and I think both would generally prefer to pretend the world ends at the Neck (Vale possible exception for Ned) as anything southwards is all about pain and chaos and conflicted loyalties. So I don't think Ned would necessarily even need a vow to be secretive about Jon's parentage if he felt it was dangerous, except with Cat, and Benjen doesn't have that complication. So I don't think Benjen would need to be bound by an oath to keep Lyanna's choosing Rhaegar private as another poster suggested. I think he'd go that way out of nature and experience. He might have told Jon if he saw a specific need for Jon to know, but otherwise, nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandros Megas Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 He is, but that doesn't make him Reed's brother in law. Nor would it make sense for him to blab to all the other Crannogmen about the biggest secret in the universe his liege lord and best friend told him to shut the hell up about. I'll save my speculations about Marsh for another topic. My point was that if r+l=j is true, more people might know. BenJen likely knows, the people who helped the Ned build cairns from the toj might know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskatoonX Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 If Ned told anyone what really happened at ToJ, I imagine Benjen would be the one. After all Lyanna was his sister aswell and Jon his nephew. I don't really think that Howland Reed told about it to many people either, probably only to his children when he send them to WF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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