Opinions of Wheel of Time

[LordStoneheart]

I'll point this out too: Just because you recognize a term someone is using from a website doesn't mean that website formed their opinion on the book. I read the book before I even discovered TVTropes and formed my opinion on that reading. TVtropes merely provided a convenient phrase to describe everything that was wrong with Rand in that book.

Convenient if you're trying to generalize and justify your disdain but still functionally useless if you want to be taken seriously.

[Kojiro]

Convenient if you're trying to generalize and justify your disdain but still functionally useless if you want to be taken seriously.

You do realize I'm prone to lacing my comments with wisecracks and witticisms, right? The ship about being serious sailed away a long time ago. It won't be seen again. But I forgot, the Internets is serious business, am I right?

[LordStoneheart]

You do realize I'm prone to lacing my comments with wisecracks and witticisms, right? The ship about being serious sailed away a long time ago. It won't be seen again. But I forgot, the Internets is serious business, am I right?

ah an admission. happy keyboarding, friend, though no offense, from what I've seen I wouldn't exactly say wise or witty. More like, dick jokes.

[Kojiro]

ah an admission. happy keyboarding, friend, though no offense, from what I've seen I wouldn't exactly say wise or witty. More like, dick jokes.

Bah, trolls are thugs. I don't seek out to deliberately antagonize people by pretending to hold a different opinion. My opinions are my own and I'm blunt and cruelly honest with them and aim to share my darkly humorous view of things. I also share my disgust with other people as openly. And Freud would be disappointed that you didn't get the "dick jokes." Need I really explain the relation of swords and serpentine creatures to phallic imagery?

[Corvinus85]

Idiot Ball.

Because that's what it was. It's a ball metaphorically carried by a character when the narrative requires them to act stupid so the story can advance. Usually it's an example of poor writing, and Path of Daggers was very, very poor. And again, lumping and explaining stupidity with insanity is a grievous insult to the mentally ill. Your examples also happen after book 8.

Yeah, "idiot ball" is really an annoying term. And attempting to justify Rand's actions by bringing up his insanity really is not an insult to the mentally ill. Behaviors like his happened in real life, and insanity usually played a part.

And once again, the Damona Campaign was not poor writing just because the main character was acting like an idiot. It would have been poor story telling if Rand had continued to ignore the Seanchen for another several books, especially after Rand had made a point for him not to forget about the Seanchen in book 5 when he took that severed Seanchen spear as his scepter.

[wolverine]

Since we do have a ton of knowledge on how an ACTUAL tortured soul living inside a person and able to communicate with them would affect their actions, thoughts, and personality, we can safely say that Rand had an, what was that cool phrase? Oh yes, Idiot Ball.

[Toblakai]

Idiot Ball.

Because that's what it was. It's a ball metaphorically carried by a character when the narrative requires them to act stupid so the story can advance. Usually it's an example of poor writing, and Path of Daggers was very, very poor. And again, lumping and explaining stupidity with insanity is a grievous insult to the mentally ill. Your examples also happen after book 8.

But he is mentally ill. Even in the quote you showed several posts back, Rand starts being stupid after Lews Therin, the voice in his head, has an ego fit. If I acted stupid after a voice in my head freaked out, you would be safe to call me mentally ill.

[Suttree]

You do realize I'm prone to lacing my comments with wisecracks and witticisms, right?

I don't seek out to deliberately antagonize people by pretending to hold a different opinion. My opinions are my own and I'm blunt and cruelly honest with them and aim to share my darkly humorous view of things.

Too good. This like one of those "How I see myself/How people actually see me" memes.

[Kojiro]

Yeah, "idiot ball" is really an annoying term. And attempting to justify Rand's actions by bringing up his insanity really is not an insult to the mentally ill. Behaviors like his happened in real life, and insanity usually played a part.

And once again, the Damona Campaign was not poor writing just because the main character was acting like an idiot. It would have been poor story telling if Rand had continued to ignore the Seanchen for another several books, especially after Rand had made a point for him not to forget about the Seanchen in book 5 when he took that severed Seanchen spear as his scepter.

It's my opinion that the series could have been a few books shorter in the first place. Most of book 8 was padding. If there even had to be a battle with the Seanchan (why Rand had to even micro-manage it is also beyond me--doesn't he have Forsaken to fight somewhere? Doesn't he have generals?), it could have been squeezed into a much more substantial book where other major events are taking place rather than filling page after page with sniffing and braid-tugging and straight-man/funny-man standup with Rand and Lews Therin (give 'em a round of applause, folks).

And actually it is an insult, because insanity is not stupidity.

But he is mentally ill. Even in the quote you showed several posts back, Rand starts being stupid after Lews Therin, the voice in his head, has an ego fit. If I acted stupid after a voice in my head freaked out, you would be safe to call me mentally ill.

See above. Why is it okay to depict his "madness" as stupidity? Why can't it simply be left to hearing voices? Why does he have to go full retard?

[Toblakai]

See above. Why is it okay to depict his "madness" as stupidity? Why can't it simply be left to hearing voices? Why does he have to go full retard?

You talk about being insulting to people with mental health issues and then use the word retard? Really?

[Kojiro]

You talk about being insulting to people with mental health issues and then use the word retard? Really?

From Merriam-Webster itself:

re·tard·ed

adjective, \ri-ˈtär-dəd\

: slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress

Which could very easily describe Rand in book 8 better than "insanity" ever could.

[Shryke]

Idiot Ball.

Because that's what it was. It's a ball metaphorically carried by a character when the narrative requires them to act stupid so the story can advance. Usually it's an example of poor writing, and Path of Daggers was very, very poor. And again, lumping and explaining stupidity with insanity is a grievous insult to the mentally ill. Your examples also happen after book 8.

The idiot ball is when someone acts uncharacteristically stupid to advance the plot.

It does not apply when someone acts in character to advance the plot since that's how narrative fiction works.

[Kojiro]

The idiot ball is when someone acts uncharacteristically stupid to advance the plot.

It does not apply when someone acts in character to advance the plot since that's how narrative fiction works.

Well, I suppose you can make an argument that Rand is always a moron, but I think that would be leading us into a different debate.

[Shryke]

Well, I suppose you can make an argument that Rand is always a moron, but I think that would be leading us into a different debate.

But Rand isn't acting like a moron. He's making, perhaps, bad decision but they are entirely understandable and in character for him at the time. That's what should be happening. That's called good writing.

Your complaints don't make any sense.

[Kojiro]

But Rand isn't acting like a moron. He's making, perhaps, bad decision but they are entirely understandable and in character for him at the time. That's what should be happening. That's called good writing.

Your complaints don't make any sense.

He listened to a suggestion from Weiramon, a man that he knows is dangerously incompetent and a fuckup. It's not just a "bad" decision, it's catastrophic.

[Corvinus85]

He listened to a suggestion from Weiramon, a man that he knows is dangerously incompetent and a fuckup. It's not just a "bad" decision, it's catastrophic.

Please remind me, on what the suggestion was. And if listening to one suggestion from an incompetent qualifies him to carry "the ball" then you're quite harsh.

[Kojiro]

Please remind me, on what the suggestion was. And if listening to one suggestion from an incompetent qualifies him to carry "the ball" then you're quite harsh.

Ebou Dar.

Enough said.

[Toblakai]

Ebou Dar.

Enough said.

Not a single person agrees with you.

Enough said.

[Corvinus85]

Ebou Dar.

Enough said.

I wish you would have given a more elaborate explanation, because it really isn't "enough said" and I have to agree with Toblakai.

[Shryke]

He listened to a suggestion from Weiramon, a man that he knows is dangerously incompetent and a fuckup. It's not just a "bad" decision, it's catastrophic.

Irrelevant. All that matters is that it's in character.