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GOODKIND X: Lemmings of Discord


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hey, I';ve got some good friends who like Man'o'War. :rolleyes:

And there are lots of self-help books available for people like that, from what I understand. I think there are even support groups.

Manowar was at least... umm... something. It sure was something. I can't listen to that stuff now without being amazed that the guys were able to take themselves seriously.

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Good morning and welcome to the Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day. Today’s quote is a special request from Lightsnake. At this point in the story Kahlan is leading the forces of Truthiness against the Imperial Order because Richard has been kidnapped. She’s waiting for reinforcements from Galea and finally her half brother Prince Harold shows up with a thousand men. Kahlan is not happy. You’ll also recall that Queen Cyrilla of Galea had a rather rough time a while ago, after Galea was brutalized by the Order, she was thrown into a dungeon to be gang raped (naturally) by a bunch of condemned criminals. This drove the poor girl quite mad and she ceded power as monarch to Kahlan until she got better. Kahlan used that authority to bring Galea into the new D’Haran empire, and so on.

“Queen Cyrilla refused my plan to take our troops south. Shortly after you were there and visited her, she came out of her illness. She was herself again – full of ambition and fire. You know what she was like. She was always tireless in her advocacy for Galea.†His fingers idly tapped the table. “But I’m afraid she has been changed by her infirmity. She fears the Imperial Order.â€

“So do I,†Kahlan said with quiet bottled rage. She could feel Richard’s sword pressed against the back of her shoulder. She saw Harold’s eyes take it in. “Everyone in the Midlands fears the Order. That is why we need those troops.â€

He was nodding as she spoke. “I told her all that. I did. She said that she is Queen of Galea, and as such, she must put our land first.â€

“Galea has joined the D’Haran Empire!â€

He opened his hands in a helpless gesture. “When she was ill, she was…unaware of that event taking place. She said she only gave you the crown for the safekeeping of her people, not to surrender their sovereignty.†His hands dropped to his sides. “She claims you never had any such authority and refuses to abide by the agreement.â€


“What about Jebra?†Zedd asked from the side of the room. Kahlan was relieved to hear his voice, as if reason were returning to the lunacy of what she was hearing, as if the weight of another voice would set things straight. “We left the seer there to help care for Cyrilla and to advise you. Surely, Jebra must have advised Cyrilla against such actions.â€

Harold hung his head again. “I’m afraid that Queen Cyrilla ordered Jebra thrown into a dungeon. Moreover, the queen gave orders that if Jebra speaks one word of her blasphemy-as Queen Cyrilla calls it-she is to have her tongue cut out.â€

<Snip, they argue about how Galea is in the direct path of the Orders march, Harold agrees but says he can’t do anything, being blindly devoted to his queen, blah blah.>

“Mother Confessor, I have been charged by my queen with protecting the people of Galea. I know my duty.â€

“Duty?†Kahlan wiped a hand across her face. “Harold, you can’t blindly follow that woman’s whim. The route to life and liberty exists only through reason. She may be queen, but reason can be your only true sovereign. To fail to use reason in this, to fail to think, is intellectual anarchy.†<Good job quoting Richard about thinking for yourself.>


“Harold, Galea is part of the D’Haran Empire. Galea has a queen only at the indulgence of the Empire. Queen though she may be, even if she does not recognize the rule of the D’Haran Empire, she is still, as she always has been, subordinate to the Mother Confessor of the Midlands. As Mother Confessor, as well as the leader of the D’Haran Empire in Lord Rahl’s absence, I formally terminate that indulgence. Cyrilla is now without authority and is removed from office. She is no longer the queen of anything, much less Galea.

“You are ordered to return to Ebinissia, to put Cyrilla under arrest for her own protection, to release Jebra, and to return to this army with the seer and all Galean forces except a home guard for the crown city.â€

“Mother Confessor, I’m sorry, but my queen has ordered—"

Kahlan slammed the flat of her hand down on the table. “Enough!â€

He fell silent as Kahlan rose. With her fingertips pressed to the table, she leaned closer to him.

“As Mother Confessor, I am commanding you to carry out my orders at once. That is final. I will hear no more.â€

The room seemed gripped by the grave consequence of what was happening. Each forbidding face watched, waiting to see how it was going to go.

Harold spoke in a voice that reminded Kahlan of their father’s.

“I realize that it may make no sense to you, Mother Confessor, but I must choose my duty to my people above my duty to you. Cyrilla is my sister. King Wyborn always told me to run a good army. An officer must obey his queen. My men down here are ordered by their queen to return at once to protect Galea. I am a man bound by my honor to protect my people, as ordered by my queen.â€

“You pompous fool. How dare you speak to me of your honor? You are sacrificing the lives of innocent people to your delusions of honor. Honor is honesty to what is, not blind duty to what you wish to be. You have no honor, Harold.â€

<Snip. They argue some more about whether or not Harold is committing treason, then he goes off on a bitter rant about how his father was taken by Kahlan’s mother to be a mate.>

His face had aged and hardened. “I know that you are not responsible for all that happened before you came to be, and I will always love that part of you that is my father, but I am still the one who must live with it all. Now I must be true to myself, to my own feeling.â€

“Your feelings,†she repeated.

“Yes, Mother Confessor. Those are my feelings, and I must put my faith in them.â€

Kahlan swallowed past the painful constriction in her throat. Her fingers, lying limply on the table before her, tingled.

“Faith and feelings. Harold, you are as mad as your sister.â€

She drew herself up straight and folded her hands. She shared a last look with her half brother, a man she had never known, except in name, as she pronounced sentence on him.

“Beginning at sunrise tomorrow, the D’Haran Empire and Galea are at war. After sunrise tomorrow, if you are seen by me or any of our men, you will be put to death for the crime of treason.

“I will not allow those brave men out there to die for traitors. The Imperial Order will, in all likelihood, turn north up the Callisidrin valley. You will be alone. They will butcher every man in your army, just as they butchered the people of Ebinissia. Jagang will give your sister to his men, as a whore.

“It will be by your doing, Harold, for refusing to use your ability to think, and instead following your feelings and faith in what does not exist.â€

Harold, hands clasped behind his back, chin held up, said nothing as Kahlan continued.

“Tell Cyrilla that she had better hope for the fate I have just described, because if the Order does not come through Galea, I will. I have promised no mercy to the Order. Galea’s treason condemns her to the same fate as the Order. If the Order does not get Cyrilla, than I swear I will, and when I get her, I am going to take her back to Aydindril and I’m going to personally throw her back down into that pit from which you rescued her, and I am going to leave her down there with every criminal brute I can find for as long as she lives.’

Harold’s jaw dropped. “Mother Confessor…you wouldn’t.â€

Kahlan’s eyes told him otherwise. “You be sure to tell Cyrilla what’s in store for her. Jebra probably tried to tell her, and was thrown in a dungeon for it. Cyrilla is refusing to see the open pit before her, and you are walking into it with her. Worse, you are taking your innocent people with you.â€

Kahlan drew her royal Galean sword. She grasped either end in a hand. Gritting her teeth, she pulled the flat of the blade against her knew. The steel bent, then finally snapped with a loud report. She tossed the broken blade on the floor at his feet. <Kahlan is a lot stronger than I thought.>

“Now get out of my sight.â€

He turned to leave, but before he took a step, Zedd stood, holding out a hand as if to ask him to remain where he was.

“Mother Confeessor,†Zedd said, choosing his words carefully. “I believe you are letting your emotions get in the way.’

Harold gestured to Kahlan, relieved to hear Zedd’s intercession. “Tell her, Wizard Zorander. Tell her.â€

Kahlan couldn’t believe her ears. She remained where she was, staring into Zedd’s hazel eyes. “Then would you mind explaining my error of emotion, First Wizard?â€

Zedd glanced at Harold and then back to Kahlan. “Mother confessor, Queen Cyrilla is obviously deranged. Prince Harold is not only doing her a disservice, but enabling her to bring only the specter of death to her people. If he chose the side of reason, he would be protecting his people, and honoring his sister’s past admirable service when she was of sound mind.

“Instead, he has betrayed his duty to his people by embracing what he wishes to be true about her instead of facing what is true. In this way, he is embracing death, and in this case, embracing death for his people, too.

“Prince Harold has been justly found guilty of treason. Your emotions for him are interfering with your judgment. Obviously, he is now a danger to our cause, to the lives of our people, and to the lives of his own people. He cannot be allowed to leave.â€

Harold looked thunderstruck. “But Zedd…â€

Zedd’s hazel eyes, too, were a terrible pronouncement of guilt. He waited, as if challenging the man to further prove his treason. Harold’s mouth moved, but he could offer no words.

“Does anyone disagree with me?†Zedd asked.

He looked at Adie. She shook her head. Verna likewise shook her head. Warren stared at Harold for a moment, then shook his head. <Everybody shook their heads. I’m seeing a pattern here.>

Harold’s expression turned indignant. “I’m not going to stand for this. The Mother Confessor has given me until dawn to withdraw. You must honor her sentence.â€

He took two strides toward the door, gut then paused, clutching his chest. Twisting slowly as he started to sink, his eyes rolling up in his head. His legs folded and he crashed to the floor.

Kahlan sat stunned. No one moved or said anything. General Meiffert went down on one knee beside the body, checking Prince Harold for breath or pulse. The general looked up at Kahlan and shook his head.

She passed her gaze from Zedd, to Adie, to Verna, to Warren. None revealed anything in their expression.

Kahlan stood and spoke softly. “I don’t ever want to know which one of you did this. I’m not saying you were wrong…I just don’t want to know.â€

~Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

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Holy god!! :sick: And I thought you said you'd run out of truly horrific quotes! Two points that sprang out:

Harold is using "intellectual anarchy" by slavishly obeying his sister's command. Er, anarchists don't slavishly obey people. And anarchists believe in individuality, so aren't they the good guys, full of moral celery?

Kahlan chastises Harold for refusing to think, when in fact all he's doing is refusing to think the same things as her. Jesus, the nerve of the man!

I don't know, every time I think I can't be more shocked by TG's writing, he does it again... Moose, how can you stand to do this every day??

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Harold, you can't blindly follow that woman's whim.

As Mother Confessor, I am commanding you to carry out my orders at once. That is final. I will hear no more.

This is separated by a few lines only, one paragraph maybe. Hm.

ETA: MinDonner was faster

Btw. is it a new revelation (Harold is the queen's brother and Kahlan's half brother) or is it already known at this point? It is quite unclear. First I thought Harold uses this information to sway Kahlan. It seems like it's his last ace up his sleeve. She, on the other hand, is so blase about it, it seems she knew it from before.

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QOTD: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

OK, these are the good guys??? How are they better than the IO?

How can TG justify his hero's thourghly evil behaviour towards this sovereign nation, its rulers and its people?

Kalhan's words are ... well, pretty much identical to what the IO would be saying.... urgh, how can anyone hold these "characters" up as examples of how we should behave? :bang:

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Are there any experts on swords here? How easy is it to snap a sword across your knee?

The lines between the good guys and the bad guys get a little more blurry every day. If the Order takes Galea, the people will be killed and the queen will be gang raped. If Kahlan and her D'Harans take Galea the people will be killed and the queen will be gang raped. Choices, choices.

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That's pretty good, that actually removes the last distinction between the good guys and the bad guys - previously it was only the bad guys that raped or threatened rape, but now Kahlan is planning the same fate for her half-sister. Go Truth! I'll take my chances with the lemmings.

- Edited to update the Animal Army rollcall -

On the side of Truth, we have:









In the Blue corner, fighting for Lies and Death (we need a new slogan, I think) we have:








Naked Molerats


The Lies & Death brigade have an advantage in that at least two of Truth's species are imaginary, whereas dinosaurs are merely extinct, but beyond that it's anyone's guess. Who's going to win?

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The lines between the good guys and the bad guys get a little more blurry every day. If the Order takes Galea, the people will be killed and the queen will be gang raped. If Kahlan and her D'Harans take Galea the people will be killed and the queen will be gang raped. Choices, choices.

To be fair, they've a third choice: total submission to D'Haran, the people will be killed as cannon fodder in the war against the IO; the queen abdicates (and will become too unimportant to be gang raped).

PS Mad Moose, please check the question I have edited into my previous post.

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Are there any experts on swords here? How easy is it to snap a sword across your knee?

it really depends on the quality of the weapon -

Poor Quality Iron is quite brittle and will snap relatively easily... you'd probably need to brace it against a wall and slam your heel down on it rather than use your hand sthough... unless you are a power lifter or something...

Low grade Iron that has been pattern welded with some steel will be much more flexable - a great deal of effor t will be needed to snap it, still its possible if you try hard enough.

High quality steel is very flexable, there are many reports of swords being terribly bent after battle, and the warrior using their strenght to restraighten them... to snap one you'd best use a very good hammer and chisel.

Given this is a royal sword, I'd expect it to be pretty well made - so Kahlan is some kind of Monster built like a tank...

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Min you are a mad genius. That was a great parody. Flipping the Unsullen’s training upside down was very clever. Thanks, you made my day.

For the latest QotD, *vomit* :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: who are the good guys? Goodkind’s philosophy is as sickening as it is wrong. I used to jokingly state the difference between Richard’s forces and the Order’s is that Richard’s didn’t rape anyone. The Mother Confessor just showed there is no difference between the two. Her willingness to be just as brutal as the Order, her ignoring the murder of Prince Harold in the pursuit to build her and Richard’s Empire shows it should be resisted just as strongly.

I need to shower now.

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And obviously, it's not wrong to kill someone who refuses to let himself see the moral clarity to agree with you, and whom you have just promised safe departure. No, not wrong at all, as long as you don't know exactly who killed him.

Ostrich tactics much?

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I guess the final dividing line between the Order and the D'Harans is that when IO soldiers gang rape a woman, they're doing it out of a sense of duty to the Creator and their fellow man. When D'Harans do it it's cuz they just wanna.

As for killing Harold, well, I assume that it was Zedd, though it is never revealed. Zedd has the most moral celery of the bunch, and because he's so much like Richard everything he does is morally justified. Did I get the reasoning right? "I'm good, therefore everything I do is good. The morality of my actions are defined by my self-declaration of being a good person."

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Good swords can be bent to about 90 degrees or beyond without undergoing permanent deformation. But you have to be pretty damned strong to do that. Bending a sword enough to break it... I think you'd have to have some exceedingly brittle iron, basically, since steel is pretty much made specifically not to break.

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You know what disgusts me most of all? Harold is written off just as he gives the best insult on the Confessors:

How can Terry claim they're good women when they knowingly and willfully destroy good men just for a child and have the man murder the male child? Too cowardly to do it themselves? Y'know, Moose, that might make a good future QOTD: Kahlan telling what Confessors do in WFR or telling how her father was taken in SoT...not as sickening, but it's shocking how Richard is so tolerant of people who STEAL individuality irreparably. Very sad how when Harold gives an offense against the Confessors, he's dropped. Would it be an issue to just jail him? It's drilled into us he's a good person!

Terry seems to think leaders shouldn't sacrifice and remain individuals-nice work, Richard, DITCHING YOUR GODDAMN NATION IN WAR because they don't match your standards- but it's fine and dandy for people to give up THEIR individuality to their leaders and obey them.

Harold's a soldier, he follows orders. He loves his nation and this whole mess is Kahlan's fault for not handling Galea properly and letting the obviously incompetent Cyrilla back to the fold.

How sweet of Kahlan...rather than actually save Galea and prove herself right, she condemns it to death for disagreeing with her.

Like I said earlier in my parody...

Verna: Looks like we forgot Jebra!

Silence rang out for a moment...then Richard laughed, Kahlan laughed. And all the men laughed.

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I remember that passage. That was the moment when I fully realised that Goodkind wasn't just one of those people who get on my nerves - he really was as moronic and evil as I thought he was.

Really, just reading it again is making me feel downright nostalgic. ;)

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Well my lurking days are now over, but I think my mind just shattered.

How can you all not see that in order to defeat your enemy you must be as brutal as them if not more so. The ends do justify the means.

wait wait, my sanity has returned ignore that. Well if I ever want to make some one blind themselves I would force them to read these books for surely they would claw their eyes out if only to keep their sanity.

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