(Spoilers) The History of the Westerlands

[Lord Varys]

In TSS, Rohanne doesn't think that Gerold would want to give up Casterly Rock for her. He is Lord Tybolt's younger brother, and, according to her, is more interested in being a power behind Tybolt than ruling Coldmoat.

But this changes. Tybolt dies, Gerold becomes Lord of Casterly Rock, and thus Rohanne the Lady of Casterly Rock if she marries him. That's a completely different situation.

It's easily imaginable that Ser Eustace fathered a child on Rohanne before his death (he most likely doesn't live all that long after TSS) which eventually inherited Coldmoat. Rohanne's sons by Gerold would inherit Casterly Rock.

[maidenandwarrior]

In TSS, Rohanne doesn't think that Gerold would want to give up Casterly Rock for her. He is Lord Tybolt's younger brother, and, according to her, is more interested in being a power behind Tybolt than ruling Coldmoat.

But this changes. Tybolt dies, Gerold becomes Lord of Casterly Rock, and thus Rohanne the Lady of Casterly Rock if she marries him. That's a completely different situation.

It's easily imaginable that Ser Eustace fathered a child on Rohanne before his death (he most likely doesn't live all that long after TSS) which eventually inherited Coldmoat. Rohanne's sons by Gerold would inherit Casterly Rock.

Yeah, this all makes sense, but I think I need to do a reread, because the way I remember it, Rohanne would only give up the deed to Coldmoat if it was pried from her cold dead fingers. And she didn't seem very greedy.

Maybe, though, Gerold came to her first. If they married before Tybolt died, and Gerold showed that he was willing to give up Casterly Rock for her, then maybe she would be willing to do the same for him, and settled Coldmoat on a son by Eustace.

This is the best Easter egg ever, no joke.

ETA: Also, Rohanne had green eyes. Did the Lannister green come from her?

[Eagle of Seagard]

Is it confirmed that Rohanne is the mother of Gerold's known children? She was his second wife, so his first wife could have been their mother. Though, given the 7 year age gap between Tytos and Jason, perhaps Rohanne is Jason's mother, while Gerold's first wife (to we get her name?) was the mother of Tytos and the twins. Gerold was widowed by 233 - is this both his wives dying, or just his first wife, and he remarried to Rohanne later?

[Lord Varys]

Gerold seems to be a very intriguing fellow, by the way. But you'll know that soon enough.

Rohanne is Gerold's second wife, their marriage would have been later in life (i.e. after the unknown first wife died, and possibly after Ser Eustace died, too).

For the record: Gerold ruled for 31 years and died 'of a bad bladder' in 243 AC.

Gerold had many sons, and some of them are confirmed to be from his second wife, among them, as far as I know, all those who are known to us (the twins Tybald/Tybolt, Tion, Tytos, and Jason). I'd imagine that he has no children from his first marriage (we have known for a long time that Tytos was a third son).

More importantly, Gerold - like Tywin later on - did not remarry after Rohanne, strongly suggesting that she - not his first wife - was the love of his life.

[Eagle of Seagard]

Thank you!

What do you mean by 'possibly after Ser Eustace died'? Did that marriage fall apart and Rohanne and Eustace separate and have the marriage voided? How else would she be free to marry Gerold?

[maidenandwarrior]

Gerold seems to be a very intriguing fellow, by the way. But you'll know that soon enough.

Rohanne is Gerold's second wife, their marriage would have been later in life (i.e. after the unknown first wife died, and possibly after Ser Eustace died, too).

For the record: Gerold ruled for 31 years and died 'of a bad bladder' in 243 AC.

Gerold had many sons, and some of them are confirmed to be from his second wife, among them, as far as I know, all those who are known to us (the twins Tybald/Tybolt, Tion, Tytos, and Jason). I'd imagine that he has no children from his first marriage (we have known for a long time that Tytos was a third son).

More importantly, Gerold - like Tywin later on - did not remarry after Rohanne, strongly suggesting that she - not his first wife - was the love of his life.

Wow, that is extremely romantic. Just wow.

Based on all that we are learning, I doubt very much that Tywin had the capacity in him to love anyone, and that those who say he loved Joanna are biased, but at least Gerold and Rohanne had a real romance. And she liked his letters in TSS. :blush:

Are you saying that Gerold had five sons? I thought Tybolt and Tion were the twins...

[maidenandwarrior]

What do you mean by 'possibly after Ser Eustace died'? Did that marriage fall apart and Rohanne and Eustace separate and have the marriage voided? How else would she be free to marry Gerold?

Maybe it was annulled?

[ashayatara]

It's up! We skipped the episode and powered through, here are our notes, let us know if we made any mistakes, as I said, we did this in a bit of a rush.

Wanting to watch the episode now, so I'm just linking to our website, you guys can of course quote it here and dissect it while we watch GoT, eat dessert, and sleep!

Here you go!

[Lord Varys]

I said 'possibly' because it's not confirmed that Rohanne, the second wife of Gerold Lannister, was actually Lady Rohanne Webber Osgrey of Coldmoat. It's very likely though, and from what I know from the reading by now, there is no other candidate for 'a surprising Lannister ancestor' out there, it seems.

Tybolt's line dies out, and his wife was not mentioned, and neither was the wife of Lord Damon. Tytos Lannister's wife is Jeyne Marbrand, and just to rule out Jason's wife as a possible suspect. The mother of Stafford, Joanna, and three other children was a Marla Prester. No surprise there, either.

Edit: Really great summary!

[maidenandwarrior]

I said 'possibly' because it's not confirmed that Rohanne, the second wife of Gerold Lannister, was actually Lady Rohanne Webber Osgrey of Coldmoat. It's very likely though, and from what I know from the reading by now, there is no other candidate for 'a surprising Lannister ancestor' out there, it seems.

Tybolt's line dies out, and his wife was not mentioned, and neither was the wife of Lord Damon. Tytos Lannister's wife is Jeyne Marbrand, and just to rule out Jason's wife as a possible suspect. The mother of Stafford, Joanna, and three other children was a Marla Prester. No surprise there, either.

Was Joanna for certain Stafford's younger sister? Is there a possibility that she was the daughter by the Stackspear woman?

[Winterfell is Burning]

Veltigar, on 01 Jun 2014 - 5:26 PM, said:

Since Tywin acted without Tytos knowing it, I'd imagine that he couldn't gather all the other Lords. I would guess he took soldiers of the Lannisters and Marbrands and soldiers of the Lords he'd meet on his way to the Tarbecks and the Reynes (since the Reynes were stealing land, those Lords surrounding their land would have joined Tywin).

Yeah, that's most likely.

There was some discussion in the last days whether Tywin went to war with almost the entire strength of the Westerlands behind him (like I and some believed) or alone with Lannister forces and no one other support (like others believed), but looks like both sides were wrong and it was a middle ground.

[Eagle of Seagard]

Was Joanna for certain Stafford's younger sister? Is there a possibility that she was the daughter by the Stackspear woman?

Or even his full sister? For the timeline to fit, Johanna's either got to be the Stackspear daughter or Prester's first child, I reckon.

[tze]

Lots of very interesting stuff here. The description of "Morgon Banefort" sounds like a combination of the Others and the skinchangers. He's a necromancer with thralls (the Others, controlling the dead), and after his death, lions went after his killer's sons (like a skinchanger carrying a grudge into his Second Life).

This description portrays the Lannisters as First Men Kings who married some invading Andals, rather than an invading Andal House who married some First Men.

So Tyland Lannister was Hand to Aegon III, but remained as Master of Coin during Aegon II's restoration. Now I'm curious who became Aegon II's Hand during those last six months, given that his brothers and grandfather were dead and he wasn't exactly in good health. Lord Hightower, maybe?

The MUSH family tree specifies Lord Jason's widow, who this summary describes as fighting the Ironborn/lending money to King's Landing/etc after the Dance, as Lady Johanna Westerling. I'm wondering if her lending money to King's Landing played a role in Tyland being named Hand to Aegon III?

If Gerold's oldest son (Tybald?) died in Tion's arms, in the same battle in which Maekar died, and Tion was a squire of Aegon V, then there's an excellent chance Aegon was fighting in that battle as well. Interesting that Gerold's wife Rohanne just vanished in 230---did she run out on him? Was she kidnapped?

[Tyrus Martell]

It's up! We skipped the episode and powered through, here are our notes, let us know if we made any mistakes, as I said, we did this in a bit of a rush.

Wanting to watch the episode now, so I'm just linking to our website, you guys can of course quote it here and dissect it while we watch GoT, eat dessert, and sleep!

Here you go!

Thanks for that, really great summaries.

Really interesting about Tytos pardoning the Red Lion and his men despite slaying hundreds and Ser Denys Marbrand. Tytos was furious. Even if Kevan was in service at the time to the Reyne and Tarbeck men who participated in the massacre, surely Tytos would have figured out they were using his own (very young, natural follower) son against him?

Interesting about Fair Isle's history with the Ironborn and Bloodraven's possible voluntary decision to go to the wall with Aemon, as well.

[Nozlym]

Thank you ashayatara

[Bael's Bastard]

Tywin cupbearer to Egg? Interesting.

[Fat Mac]

So the Lannisters are a confirmed first men house? Cool.

Great shit. I'm gonna need someone to create a family tree, cos these Lannisters are getting confusing

[tze]

Back in ASOS, when Jaime described the imprisoning of Lord Tarbeck:

Tywin Lannister’s own father Lord Tytos had once imprisoned an unruly bannerman, Lord Tarbeck. The redoubtable Lady Tarbeck responded by capturing three Lannisters, including young Stafford, whose sister was betrothed to cousin Tywin. “Send back my lord and love, or these three shall answer for any harm that comes him,” she had written to Casterly Rock. Young Tywin suggested his father oblige by sending back Lord Tarbeck in three pieces. Lord Tytos was a gentler sort of lion, however, so Lady Tarbeck won a few more years for her muttonheaded lord, and Stafford wed and bred and blundered on till Oxcross.

But according to this summary, it was Tywin who imprisoned Lord Tarbeck, not Tytos. (And it always did seem odd to me that Tytos the pushover would have had a bannerman imprisoned, so having it be Tywin acting on his own makes sense.)

There's something hilariously sad about Tytos funding the rebellion against him.

ETA: This summary calls Gerold "twice widowed", but says that Rohanne "simply vanished" in 230. If she was never found, Gerold's failure to remarry could have derived, at least in part, from a belief that she wasn't dead.

[Fat Mac]

I always assumed Tywin was overreacting with how Tytos was viewed, but obviously he wasn't. What he did might have been extreme, but something definitely needed to be done.

[The Wolves]

So the Lannisters are a confirmed first men house? Cool.

Great shit. I'm gonna need someone to create a family tree, cos these Lannisters are getting confusing

It never said if the Lannisters are a First Men House but it did say that Lann was rumored to be an Andel, or did I miss it somewhere

And Tytos sounded like a really mellow person he laughed with the people making a fool out of him. Also Tywin does not sound like a person who would hit someone so that rumor that he hit Tytos I can believe because it must have been very frustrating watching his family and father be laughed at and used.