watson98 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Ok so,I was reading GRRM's new sample chapter 'Mercy' (if you haven't read it then here: http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/ ) and I read that some of the Lannister soldiers mention someone called 'The Gold Queen'. I naturally assumed it was Cersei but due to her current situation it didn't quite make sense. So then I read up on some theories that it could be Margery but that didn't make much sense because she is also locked up awaiting trial. So, if both of the people who would be considered as 'The Gold Queen' are locked up at the moment then who could it be??So then I asked myself; "WHEN is this chapter set?". Maybe 'The Gold Queen' could be either Cersei or Margery AFTER their trials, and this chapter is much later in the book than what people thought?When do you guys think it is set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Good pick up!I would think it must be Cersei, especially since Harys Swift is her pawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sea Snake Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The only time-ref we have are: Harys Swift being in Bravoos. I can't remember when he was sent, but we can look that up. And the second one, Raff being there. This has time-line implications, since remember that by the end of Jaime's arch he sends Raff with other of the Mountain's men to escort Robin Ryger and Desmond Grell to Maidenpool after they surrender Riverun and accept to take the Black. So that means that AFTER Jaime's arch, Raff must have had time to go: From Riverun to Maidenpool, then from MP to King's Landing or something to Join Harys Swift as an escort, and then journey from there to BravoosSo I think that maybe a month or two might have passed since then. At least that, I mean. Perhaps more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Harys_Swyft It seems like Swyft is told to go to Braavos during the DwD epilogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 It's honestly hard to say, especially with a preview chapter. Their not always in chronological order, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I believe somebody has said that chapter was originally written for a seventeen year old Arya (After a timeskip) So you're guess is as good as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 It's at least a full month after the epilogue of Dance due to travel times for Harys Swyft. Personally, I'm more inclined towards half a year, based on Arya's chapters in Dance being already quite ahead of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 It's at least a full month after the epilogue of Dance due to travel times for Harys Swyft. Personally, I'm more inclined towards half a year, based on Arya's chapters in Dance being already quite ahead of the rest. I think, that half a year is a better estimation as well. The way I read the ADWD epilogue Swyft wanted to obtain funds from Myr and the magisters of Pentos. Going there in person should at least cost him some months, even communicating by mail needs a few weeks (and I do not know, how a complex procedure like negotiating a loan can be done via mail). (I would have loved to see Harys Swyft negotiating with Illyrio Mopatis without knowing of his hidden motives, but it seems we do not get that) Harys should have gone to Braavos after not obtaining a loan from Myr and Pentos. Another clue for this is the fact, that Cersei openly threatens to behead him, should he fail. If the possibility of securing a loan from another source was still there, the punishment does not fit for a person Cersei is related to through marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vvornth Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The Gold Queen is most likely Cersei. I don't see anyone besting Ser Gre... Robert Strong in trial by combat. With Kevan gone as well there is no other Lannister left to led the people still loyal to Lannister (though the Tyrells are likely gaining more supporters every day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ok so, I was reading GRRM's new sample chapter 'Mercy' (if you haven't read it then here: http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/ ) and I read that some of the Lannister soldiers mention someone called 'The Gold Queen'. I naturally assumed it was Cersei but due to her current situation it didn't quite make sense. So then I read up on some theories that it could be Margery but that didn't make much sense because she is also locked up awaiting trial. So, if both of the people who would be considered as 'The Gold Queen' are locked up at the moment then who could it be?? So then I asked myself; "WHEN is this chapter set?". Maybe 'The Gold Queen' could be either Cersei or Margery AFTER their trials, and this chapter is much later in the book than what people thought? When do you guys think it is set? The main thing is the 'feel' of it is that Arya is older , she seems 'aged up' not only psychologically but also physically too. How George is going to pull this off is a great mystery to me, remember he wanted to step forward five years after SoS and that did not work out. Maybe this time he has really written the 'step forward' prologue he was going to do , tho it might not be 5 years. I would question that 'The Gold Queen' is Cersei , the way things were pointed seemed Margery had the upper hand in the whole situation at KL , tho as now King's Mother, she might still be about but not Queen Regent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revenant6 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Could the "The Gold Queen" be Myrcella? I'd guess Cersei - just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espresso Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Here is the discussion between the Westerosi guards, about the dwarf Bobono playing Tyrion:“Maybe not, but look here, everyone says how clever he was, true? So maybe he figures the last place his sister would ever look for him would be in some mummer show, making fun of himself. So he does just that, to tweak her nose.”“Ah, you’re mad.”“Well, maybe I’ll follow him after the mummery. Find out for myself.” The guardsman put a hand on the hilt of his sword. “If I’m right, I’ll be a ma lord, and if I’m wrong, well, bleed it, it’s just some dwarf.” He gave a bark of laughter. As far as Raff knows, the bounty on Tyrion's head is still intact. Which means when they set out to Braavos, the queen was Cersei. However, what could have happened in KL during this time, we have no way of knowing. I don't think Ser Swyft travels with a raven or a maester, to keep up with news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonalame Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Aunt Genna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Aunt Genna? Wouldn't be a Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Snow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Mercy does say this........“I’ll grow titties in a year or two.” Mercy rose, to tower over the little man. “But you’ll never grow another nose. You think of that, before you touch me there.” I'd imagine that Arya/Mercy is still young to look at herself in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamegeknee Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think it is Cersei. Even if she was found guilty in her trial, word may not have reached Braavos yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountFJM Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think the Gold Queen is definitely Cersei (Raff's mention of Tyrion's bounty, and the subject of the play being two additional hints), and the timing is likely some months after the aDwD prologue. Harys Swyft is a Lannister loyalist (Kevan's stepfather), with Kevan out of the picture only Cersei would have left him on the small council. Remember, Varys' stated intention in killing Kevan was to sow discord and confusion in KL (specifically calling out that Cersei would find a way to blame the Tyrells and/or the Tyrells + Tyrion), and that requires a paranoid Cersei back in power. It's Kevan's opinion that her power is broken but he (And most of the male lords in KL) is likely underestimating her determination and ambition. She is still Queen and the ranking Lannister on stage. it doesn't seem too big a spoiler that she'll survive her trial* in some fashion, and leverage her newfound "innocence" and Kevan's untimely death into a position of power. And who is left in KL anyway? Kevan (Regent) is dead; Mace (Hand) is marching on FAegon, likely with Randall Tarly in tow; Margaery's trial is also undecided and she to date has not matched Cersei's level of ruthlessness (her late realization that Cersei was behind her framing was sorta damning of her ability to play the Game of Thrones). *one curveball I could see GRRM throwing is Cersei not having a trial at all. With KL is disarray after Kevan's death/Mace's march following the fall of Storm's End, I could see Cersei consolidizing her position and weaseling out of it (hinted at in Kevan's thoughts during the epilogue when he rebuts Mace's wish to cancel Margaery's trial ("the man was too dense to see that if he called off the trial it would be an admission of guilt," or something along those lines -- well, Cersei might be that dense). Slightly unrelated question, who by Westerosi law is now the technical heir to Casterly Rock, assuming Jaime, Tyrion and Lancel (?) are out? Devan or another cousin? Cersei's theoretical son from another marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evita mgfs Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Just a point, Arya IS ACTING in the role of "Mercy", as she performs coquettishly to lure Raff to her lair. Raff's companion implies that the girl Raff lusts for is but a child. Arya becomes Arya when Martin first uses her name as she pulls forth her Needle. Arya Stark kills Raff, not Mercy - she is a means to an end. Also, Mercy has her first lines on stage in the Bloody Hand. As an apprentice - well, she actually performs the part of a Stage Manager - either way, she has been with the acting company a minimum of three months - she's a quick study. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindsofDorne Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The golden queen was daenerys in my option, there in essos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsaw Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The golden queen was daenerys in my option, there in essos People tend to call Daenerys "the Silver Queen", so no to that. Therefore we now have a golden queen against a silver one. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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