Kudos to Rory McCann (possible book spoilers)

[Le Cygne]

His audition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWX2fPx-5k

Also found the GRRM quote:

"Sandor needs to be a big guy, powerful and threatening, someone who looks like he could break you in half. Rory is all of that and more. Mostly, though, it was his readings. We had other good ones, yes, but none to touch his. One of the scenes in the side was Sandor's scene with Sansa, where he tells her how his face came to be scarred. In the space of a few lines, Rory had me terrified (where he roars, "Look at me," and makes her look at his face), made me chuckle (when he says no, the burns weren't dragonflame), and brought a tear to my eye (when he tells his story). After I saw that, I knew he was Sandor... and David, Dan, and Tom all agreed."

[Woman of War]

Damn, lost the post while editing, here again

It's about Rory McCann's performance on Game of Thrones where he plays Sandor Clegane who is in love with Sansa Stark, and he just played Sandor's big scene. This is what all of his many scenes with Sansa throughout the first two seasons, and the subtext of the following two seasons, had been building to, where Sandor spells it out that he loves Sansa. Rory hinted this moment was coming, too.

Umm, so far he described fucking her would have been at least one happy memory, he did not speak of love but of a moment of happiness. This is delivered in a wistful, touching way. But it may mean that any gentle, and beautiful woman or girl has always been unreachable to Sandor, that Sansa personified everything Sandor could not even dream of, that in this moment he laid open his whole shitty life, a moment not about Sansa but about himself. When he spoke about the memory he wished to have had he may only have realized in that same moment that the horrible way of persuading Arya, the "fucking Sansa bloody" could have had a nucleus of happiness in it.

After all HBO Sandor never made any attempt to approach Sansa in a sexual, even remotely erotic way. The only scene which was clear harassment has been deleted, the one from season 2 where Sandor attacks Sansa on the stairs. The show makers may know why: Sandor is not meant to be presented as sexual predator, he is protector in the series. And it is the Arya/Sandor relationship that is the focus of the series, not Sansa and Sandor. Sansa is no more than giving a face to a dream, a longing.

I think this is a rather different accent compared to the books where there is a clear violent, destructive aspect in Sandor's infatuation with Sansa. Their relationship in the series has been purified, made easier to digest. The protector instead of the man doomed by his emotions, who "must love what he destroys and destroy the things he loves". In the books Sandor's love is an infatuation that may easily destroy both, in the books it has been sanitized of all creepy aspects, no knife at throat, no rape threat. Taking some of Sandor's complex aspects from him, something that has been done with other characters too. Though in the end we may get the same result: Sandor, if he is still alive at all, may die for Sansa.

[Hippocras]

Le Cygne

What is the point of bringing SanSan up over and over and over? We get that some people really like the whole idea of it. But it is just one detail in a set of books and a show with many many complex and fascinating details. This is not a Harlequin romance. Noone disputes these two have a bond that will be important eventually, somehow to the story, however there ARE many good reasons to dispute the romantic love story version of it.

So can we just talk about Rory on the Rory appreciation thread? Thanks.

[Le Cygne]

This is a Rory playing Sandor on Game of Thrones thread, and George R.R. Martin has made Sandor's story about Sansa, too. Half of his scenes were with her, and the other half, he was thinking about her. He just said she was the one thing that would have made him happy in a big scene. Sandor Clegane loves Sansa Stark, that's the story. If you don't like the story - and you have stated a preference for a different pairing for Sansa - take it up with the author. Everyone has been telling you the same thing, over and over.

[Hippocras]

please stop trying to make this a SanSan thread. Please.

[Woman of War]

What's wrong with the forum, posts jumping around?

I wonder if the story of Sandor and Sansa may not even end more tragically: in the books Sandor loves Sansa's alleged moral purity, Sansa's little bird attitude, while at the same time trying to destroy it. Maybe he will be totally shocked of what has become of Sansa if she goes along the maleficientSansa route of the show. And then, with a different Sandor and a different Sansa, they may find themselves on different sides of "good and evil", having switched positions of vile and upright.

And then he may destroy what he loves.

Again highly complex motivations, would be hard to digest for viewers and not yet written of course.

But maybe Sandor is indeed meant to have found peace

please stop trying to make this a SanSan thread. Please.

Edit, sorry, ok, got it

[Hippocras]

What's wrong with the forum, posts jumping around?

I wonder if the story of Sandor and Sansa may not even end more tragically: in the books Sandor loves Sansa's alleged moral purity, Sansa's little bird attitude, while at the same time trying to destroy it. Maybe he will be totally shocked of what has become of Sansa if she goes along the maleficientSansa route of the show. And then, with a different Sandor and a different Sansa, they may find themselves on different sides of "good and evil", having switched positions of vile and upright.

And then he may destroy what he loves.

Again highly complex motivations, would be hard to digest for viewers and not yet written of course.

But maybe Sandor is indeed meant to have found peace

Edit, sorry, ok, got it

no worries. :)

I think you are correct that the show has emphasized Sandor's gruff protector aspect. And I think that is ultimately where the whole thing leads. He is the first of her queen's guard even if she never becomes a queen.

[Zorn Gottes]

In the books Sandor's love is an infatuation that may easily destroy both, in the books it has been sanitized of all creepy aspects, no knife at throat, no rape threat. Taking some of Sandor's complex aspects from him, something that has been done with other characters too. Though in the end we may get the same result: Sandor, if he is still alive at all, may die for Sansa.

I wonder if he will, at this point. In the show he already "died" for Arya, it would be redundant. I'm becoming more and more convinced that he will make it to the end of the series.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

His audition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWX2fPx-5k

Also found the GRRM quote:

Awwwwwwwww, thank you so much for bringing that. I hadn't read GRRM's comments on Rory as Sandor before. And, I'm again in mourning for not having the scene in the show. I know it was, supposedly, many reasons that Batfinger was the one to do the honors, but damn......I'm missing that all over again. That scene is one of my favorites from the books as well. That, and the time Sandor came upon the Little Bird returning from the Godswood.....as he was returning from his night off, LOL He escorts her past his idiot KG brother, all the while being tipsy and so entertaining. It would be interesting to see something between Sandor and Sansa on screen in the future, we are just about OWED something for all we've missed already.

I still have faith that both GRRM and the show have more in store for Rory and Sandor. I think the possibilities are almost endless for him in both mediums.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Damn, lost the post while editing, here again

Umm, so far he described fucking her would have been at least one happy memory, he did not speak of love but of a moment of happiness. This is delivered in a wistful, touching way. But it may mean that any gentle, and beautiful woman or girl has always been unreachable to Sandor, that Sansa personified everything Sandor could not even dream of, that in this moment he laid open his whole shitty life, a moment not about Sansa but about himself. When he spoke about the memory he wished to have had he may only have realized in that same moment that the horrible way of persuading Arya, the "fucking Sansa bloody" could have had a nucleus of happiness in it.

After all HBO Sandor never made any attempt to approach Sansa in a sexual, even remotely erotic way. The only scene which was clear harassment has been deleted, the one from season 2 where Sandor attacks Sansa on the stairs. The show makers may know why: Sandor is not meant to be presented as sexual predator, he is protector in the series. And it is the Arya/Sandor relationship that is the focus of the series, not Sansa and Sandor. Sansa is no more than giving a face to a dream, a longing.

I think this is a rather different accent compared to the books where there is a clear violent, destructive aspect in Sandor's infatuation with Sansa. Their relationship in the series has been purified, made easier to digest. The protector instead of the man doomed by his emotions, who "must love what he destroys and destroy the things he loves". In the books Sandor's love is an infatuation that may easily destroy both, in the books it has been sanitized of all creepy aspects, no knife at throat, no rape threat. Taking some of Sandor's complex aspects from him, something that has been done with other characters too. Though in the end we may get the same result: Sandor, if he is still alive at all, may die for Sansa.

Honestly, I try to stay out of the over shipping stuff, on any front, but this just leads me to recall the saying "words are wind." Sandor talks a nasty game, but that's all it is, a certain way of talking in my opinion anyway. As far as the first paragraph of the post, WHY would Sandor's only happy memory, show verse, contain Sansa, if being with her didn't equal happiness in his mind? Am I to believe that his dying wish was.....he should have gotten his rocks off that one time as opposed to......the idea that being with Sansa means something to him? Again, 'words are wind.'

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Le Cygne

What is the point of bringing SanSan up over and over and over? We get that some people really like the whole idea of it. But it is just one detail in a set of books and a show with many many complex and fascinating details. This is not a Harlequin romance. Noone disputes these two have a bond that will be important eventually, somehow to the story, however there ARE many good reasons to dispute the romantic love story version of it.

So can we just talk about Rory on the Rory appreciation thread? Thanks.

Is there a reason we can't talk about Sansa as ONE of the many characters that affect Sandor's story, book and show, past and possible future, as it has been and might be played by Rory? I, for one, appreciate all areas of Sandor's story, all of Rory's work on the show, and well....if one doesn't want to talk about certain aspects of it, one could, say, ignore certain posts, LOL

[Le Cygne]

Awwwwwwwww, thank you so much for bringing that. I hadn't read GRRM's comments on Rory as Sandor before. And, I'm again in mourning for not having the scene in the show. I know it was, supposedly, many reasons that Batfinger was the one to do the honors, but damn......I'm missing that all over again. That scene is one of my favorites from the books as well. That, and the time Sandor came upon the Little Bird returning from the Godswood.....as he was returning from his night off, LOL He escorts her past his idiot KG brother, all the while being tipsy and so entertaining. It would be interesting to see something between Sandor and Sansa on screen in the future, we are just about OWED something for all we've missed already.

I still have faith that both GRRM and the show have more in store for Rory and Sandor. I think the possibilities are almost endless for him in both mediums.

Someone sent me a bunch of links, Rory is actually pretty good with the romantic stuff. I wasn't sure, I'd never seen him in anything before this. I don't think Sandor is supposed to be a smooth operator, so I was fine with him coming on too strong in that one scene. That wasn't nearly as good as the book scene, but like you said, tipsy and entertaining is more like it. Which is also why I don't want him to stop drinking. Part of my continuation of the finale scene is Stranger comes up to him and there's a wine bottle just in reach. :lol:

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Someone sent me a bunch of links, Rory is actually pretty good with the romantic stuff. I wasn't sure, I'd never seen him in anything before this. I don't think Sandor is supposed to be a smooth operator, so I was fine with him coming on too strong in that one scene. That wasn't nearly as good as the book scene, but like you said, tipsy and entertaining is more like it. Which is also why I don't want him to stop drinking. Part of my continuation of the finale scene is Stranger comes up to him and there's a wine bottle just in reach. :lol:

ITA on Sandor and the drinking. Arya may be a bit dense (especially bookwise) about what all of Sandor's Sansa mentions really mean, but even she noticed the drinking. I loved when they were at The Crossroads, bookscene of course, that Arya realized almost instantly how Sandor's empty stomach and extreme wine guzzling were gonna be a problem, LOL

Rory does terrific with the drinking aspect of the character, too. I remember reading him discussing the show's first episode this season, he had actually refrained in RL from drinking for a time, IIRC, and the guzzling required for those Inn scenes left his stomach a mess. It never showed on tape, though. I'd have to see if I can find that interview again. It would have came out in the beginning of the season, of course. Poor Rory is dying from extra guzzling work, while The Hound is just chillin' and looking for chickens. HAHA

[Le Cygne]

Honestly, I try to stay out of the over shipping stuff, on any front, but this just leads me to recall the saying "words are wind." Sandor talks a nasty game, but that's all it is, a certain way of talking in my opinion anyway. As far as the first paragraph of the post, WHY would Sandor's only happy memory, show verse, contain Sansa, if being with her didn't equal happiness in his mind? Am I to believe that his dying wish was.....he should have gotten his rocks off that one time as opposed to......the idea that being with Sansa means something to him? Again, 'words are wind.'

Yep, yep, yep. Nicely said. He looked happy just thinking about her.

[Woman of War]

I wonder if he will, at this point. In the show he already "died" for Arya, it would be redundant. I'm becoming more and more convinced that he will make it to the end of the series.

Well, he did precisely not die for Arya if he ever gets the chance to die for Sansa ;)

I think Sandor will stay on the QI or within a similar situation in the show and survive in a remotely happy ending or he is doomed to die.

[Le Cygne]

ITA on Sandor and the drinking. Arya may be a bit dense (especially bookwise) about what all of Sandor's Sansa mentions really mean, but even she noticed the drinking. I loved when they were at The Crossroads, bookscene of course, that Arya realized almost instantly how Sandor's empty stomach and extreme wine guzzling were gonna be a problem, LOL

I liked the soup scene, too, it's like the Beast here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwZEcdBMLLU

And "How can a man not keep ale in his home?"

[Zorn Gottes]

I still have faith that both GRRM and the show have more in store for Rory and Sandor. I think the possibilities are almost endless for him in both mediums.

Not many months ago I read an interview to Rory McCann, I did a search yesterday but unfortunately I can't find it anymore*... Anyways, Rory said that "every year he sends GRRM a bottle of a liquor he makes, so he keeps him alive in his books" (does anybody remember this interview?)

Yesterday on WIC Maisie said: "When she picks up the silver, it’s not a spiteful thing—she’s just doing what The Hound taught her, since he was the one who said, “Dead men don’t need silver.” And in her eyes, she thinks he’s dead."

And there's also Beric: "Go in peace Sandor Clegane, the Lord of Light isn't done with you yet" (what's the point if he doesn't come back? fruitlessly bringing Arya around?

He's coming back FOR SURE, they are telling without telling :laugh:

* ETA: HERE IT IS!

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/03/31/rory-mccann-on-season-4-arya-and-the-hound-will-leave-a-trail-of-destruction-in-their-wake/

My secret is that I make sloe berry gin at home and keep giving it to George Martin, so he keeps me in his tales.”

[Hippocras]

Is there a reason we can't talk about Sansa as ONE of the many characters that affect Sandor's story, book and show, past and possible future, as it has been and might be played by Rory? I, for one, appreciate all areas of Sandor's story, all of Rory's work on the show, and well....if one doesn't want to talk about certain aspects of it, one could, say, ignore certain posts, LOL

I think it is valid to mention how the Hound talked about Sansa as he was dying in the show and how that was portrayed. But it was several pages of going on and on trying to preach a SanSan love story with no mention whatsoever of Rory or even the show, and it is the exact same things that are said on basically every single thread that mentions one of these two characters. It is truly excessive and it becomes impossible to talk about any single other aspect of either character's arcs without some SanSan enthusiast jumping in and taking over the thread. And as I said in my post that was so badly misrepresented earlier; SanSan as a "romance" is oversimplification IMO.

Because SanSan is controversial, and SHOULD be debated in detail with due consideration to the various sides of the argument, it is really something that belongs on its OWN thread. Since SanSan was somewhat de-emphasized in the show, and since Rory never discussed it much in interviews, I think it would be best to discuss Rory's performance without pages and pages of SanSan debate.

[Hippocras]

Not many months ago I read an interview to Rory McCann, I did a search yesterday but unfortunately I can't find it anymore*... Anyways, Rory said that "every year he sends GRRM a bottle of a liquor he makes, so he keeps him alive in his books" (does anybody remember this interview?)

Yesterday on WIC Maisie said: "When she picks up the silver, it’s not a spiteful thing—she’s just doing what The Hound taught her, since he was the one who said, “Dead men don’t need silver.” And in her eyes, she thinks he’s dead."

And there's also Beric: "Go in peace Sandor Clegane, the Lord of Light isn't done with you yet" (what's the point if he doesn't come back? fruitlessly bringing Arya around?

He's coming back FOR SURE, they are telling without telling :laugh:

* ETA: HERE IT IS!

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/03/31/rory-mccann-on-season-4-arya-and-the-hound-will-leave-a-trail-of-destruction-in-their-wake/

My secret is that I make sloe berry gin at home and keep giving it to George Martin, so he keeps me in his tales.”

ha ha that's great.

[Hippocras]

Well, he did precisely not die for Arya if he ever gets the chance to die for Sansa ;)

I think Sandor will stay on the QI or within a similar situation in the show and survive in a remotely happy ending or he is doomed to die.

I really need to write up my soiled Kingsguard reassembled theory at some point.

But the gist of it is that several ex members of various Kingsguards are slowly collecting in the Riverlands. Once they hit seven, they will have found their new king. Sandor's Stark loyalty is related to that.

We have:

Sandor

Brienne

Jamie

Elder Brother (Jonothor Darry or Lewyn Martell)

Possibly in Future:

Jorah

Loras

Gendry

Blackfish

Edric

suggestions??