Kudos to Rory McCann (possible book spoilers)

[Hippocras]

I think the HS uses fanaticism for power. He's not AS fanatic as he purports to be, it's a tool for power. But, his BS enables true fanatics, that is the problem. I'm not one who thinks the HS is really about much of anything, ie...working for or against a particular faction. I just think he has used the war and how it has effected the Faith and the smallfolk to his own ends. I get the feeling he didn't arrive in KL expecting to be HS, he just wanted to use his following to press for something, perhaps the arming of the Faith was his main goal, and he hoped to use his own membership or leadership in it to obtain power. I suspect the murder of the previous HS may have been what upped his ambitions. I think he is what he appears to be, a repressed bundle wrapped up in religion, he just ups the anti for effect, IMO. I could be wrong, I get that, but I also don't think everything is a giant conspiracy and everyone is always working with someone else. HS is doing just fine on his own, LOL from his perspective, anyway.

He is certainly hard to figure out right now.

But....the shame walk....you see the parallel? Doesn't feel like too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence? Could be his own personal grudge - maybe he is a Tarbeck.

[Le Cygne]

I'll have to check that link out, I am sure I'll enjoy it. ITA, what's left of Gregor isn't his brother anyway, he may have to do something about him, but I don't think it means THAT much, or will mean that much, anymore. Stranger and his bits, all together now, will be back, Baby!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-SIa9YHQ8g

(broken link, here's the scene, at 4:32)

I would love to see the script notes for that scene.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

He, umm, chastise himself...with a flog. Thats Da vinci code crazy

LOL, true. That's why I do think there is something to the fact that his religious beliefs come from a real place for him. I suspect, though, that he has learned some showmanship to up the ante and make it work for him and his continuing bid for power. I wouldn't be surprised if deep down he thinks he is doing good and helping commoners on the whole. But, he is also a sign of how zealotry in itself is oppressive and how 'my way or the highway' is dangerous when it comes to religion.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

http://queensansastarkhasmoved.tumblr.com/post/62094998882/8-unordered-collection-of-sandor-clegane-gifs

The bottom left is the one I'm talking about. I would love to see the script notes for that scene.

Those clips are also reminding me of when I was setting up my dvr for him and Arya and the chicken dinner. Rory really does look like he could be Sean Connery's cousin or something. Even with the makeup for a half burned face, the eyebrow alone.........I can't help but see the Sean Connery factor in him, LOL

[rmholt]

Also... he hesitates to kill Gregor for the same reason Arya hesitates to kill him - he doesn't really want to. That's also being explored in that scene. He had a chance and he didn't take it:

He doesn't kill Gregor because kinslaying is Wrong. If there's one thing we know about Sandor, he does have a moral code.

[Le Cygne]

Those clips are also reminding me of when I was setting up my dvr for him and Arya and the chicken dinner. Rory really does look like he could be Sean Connery's cousin or something. Even with the makeup for a half burned face, the eyebrow alone.........I can't help but see the Sean Connery factor in him, LOL

He was hot in the chicken scene, I gotta say. Nothing like a man who can chop people in half, I always say. And it's not fair that I'm liking him so much after he "dies" - they better bring him back soon.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Really? I took that scene as him still being very much afraid of Gregor. Arya ask "What would you do if he was right there?" The read I got from Rory's expression was "I would run" instead of "Im over it"

I agree that while he laid dying he was thinking of Sansa not Gregor but I don't believe he's over it. As long as he is afraid of fire he'll never be over it. His fear of fire is his fear of Gregor.

I moreso usually get a.........I don't want to talk about it vibe and the deeper meaning being......he doesn't want to have to be a cursed kinslayer. Part of him wants that, but part of him wants to be the good guy, and good guys shouldn't have to kinslayers. I think it's a complexity. He almost needs permission to do the right thing as far as Gregor is concerned, I think. He talks a hard game, but deep down, there are many layers to the issues.

[Hippocras]

I moreso usually get a.........I don't want to talk about it vibe and the deeper meaning being......he doesn't want to have to be a cursed kinslayer. Part of him wants that, but part of him wants to be the good guy, and good guys shouldn't have to kinslayers. I think it's a complexity. He almost needs permission to do the right thing as far as Gregor is concerned, I think. He talks a hard game, but deep down, there are many layers to the issues.

agreed.

[Le Cygne]

I moreso usually get a.........I don't want to talk about it vibe and the deeper meaning being......he doesn't want to have to be a cursed kinslayer. Part of him wants that, but part of him wants to be the good guy, and good guys shouldn't have to kinslayers. I think it's a complexity. He almost needs permission to do the right thing as far as Gregor is concerned, I think. He talks a hard game, but deep down, there are many layers to the issues.

This, exactly...

[Lady Fevre Dream]

He is certainly hard to figure out right now.

But....the shame walk....you see the parallel? Doesn't feel like too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence? Could be his own personal grudge - maybe he is a Tarbeck.

I'm not sure on that, I doubt he is a Lannister enemy. I think it's more so..........he is just a travelling septon who is honest in his beliefs and his opposition to other faiths, and is using the war and the common folk to get as far as he has. I suspect that it was all about arming the Faith...he came to KL with those already carving the five pointed star into their flesh. But, he ups the anti, wanting power for it's own sake, I think, not for revenge. Becoming HS was the bonus, I think he was looking to use his flock to pressure the other HS and be the strong man of the Faith, a member of the Swords and Stars. Being HS fell into his lap and he's running with it. His Cersei business is about how men of Faith, especially in olden times, felt about women in general, I think.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

He was hot in the chicken scene, I gotta say. Nothing like a man who can chop people in half, I always say. And it's not fair that I'm liking him so much after he "dies" - they better bring him back soon.

I was also watching the Connery-like eyebrow when they were out in the bushes at the start of the scene, and his look of surprise to find Arya heading out from cover and toward the door. Rory definitely looked like Connery right there.

[Hippocras]

I'm not sure on that, I doubt he is a Lannister enemy. I think it's more so..........he is just a travelling septon who is honest in his beliefs and his opposition to other faiths, and is using the war and the common folk to get as far as he has. I suspect that it was all about arming the Faith...he came to KL with those already carving the five pointed star into their flesh. But, he ups the anti, wanting power for it's own sake, I think, not for revenge. Becoming HS was the bonus, I think he was looking to use his flock to pressure the other HS and be the strong man of the Faith, a member of the Swords and Stars. Being HS fell into his lap and he's running with it. His Cersei business is about how men of Faith, especially in olden times, felt about women in general, I think.

Then why do exactly the same thing that Tywin did to the mistress? It is not like shame walks are a common thing, even in the nasty place that is Westeros. There would be hundreds of other ways to punish Cersei if he felt she needed to be punished. He picked the one way that would be guaranteed to shame the entire Lannister family to the maximum.

[Hippocras]

I was also watching the Connery-like eyebrow when they were out in the bushes at the start of the scene, and his look of surprise to find Arya heading out from cover and toward the door. Rory definitely looked like Connery right there.

I never saw that before, but true!

[OldGimletEye]

He doesn't kill Gregor because kinslaying is Wrong. If there's one thing we know about Sandor, he does have a moral code.

You might be completely right about this. I always thought it had a lot to do with the fact that Gregor didn't have helmet on. Sandor seems to have an odd approach to violence. He seems to want fights to be "fair". If I recall correctly, wasn't there a part in the books where Thoros says something to the effect that Sandor would gladly kill all of the BWB, but he wouldn't do it while they were sleeping?

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Then why do exactly the same thing that Tywin did to the mistress? It is not like shame walks are a common thing, even in the nasty place that is Westeros. There would be hundreds of other ways to punish Cersei if he felt she needed to be punished. He picked the one way that would be guaranteed to shame the entire Lannister family to the maximum.

Why in the hell would a Tarbeck care to get some type of symmetry for Tytos Lannister's mistress? The sexual shaming of women in this manner isn't necessarily all that odd, truth be told. And, I have to wonder how much Kevan figured into doing this as a compromise, we really don't know whose idea it was at first, I'm not certain we do. Even if it was the HS's idea, the fame of the Lannister mistress's walk may have ironically given the HS his idea, not to mention, I have to guess even Tywin himself did get the idea somewhere, perhaps in the history of the kingdoms itself.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I never saw that before, but true!

He does, it took me awhile to notice, but the face, the eyebrows, etc. I'm wondering how close their clans really may be, ya know? LOL I thought Connery looked better as he aged, I may wind up feeling the same about Rory.

[Hippocras]

Why in the hell would a Tarbeck care to get some type of symmetry for Tytos Lannister's mistress? The sexual shaming of women in this manner isn't necessarily all that odd, truth be told. And, I have to wonder how much Kevan figured into doing this as a compromise, we really don't know whose idea it was at first, I'm not certain we do. Even if it was the HS's idea, the fame of the Lannister mistress's walk may have ironically given the HS his idea, not to mention, I have to guess even Tywin himself did get the idea somewhere, perhaps in the history of the kingdoms itself.

Well it wasn't so much about arguing that he must be a Tarbeck. The point is simply it has the feel of revenge; of hitting the Lannisters where it will be the most unpleasant for them. legacy and reputation.

The Tarbecks are just an example of a family, that if anyone happened to be alive, would be nursing a simmering rage against the Lannisters. But they are not the only ones of course.

I accept coincidence is possible. It just feels to me like it probably isn't. But we will see in the next book most likely.

[Hippocras]

You might be completely right about this. I always thought it had a lot to do with the fact that Gregor didn't have helmet on. Sandor seems to have an odd approach to violence. He seems to want fights to be "fair". If I recall correctly, wasn't there a part in the books where Thoros says something to the effect that Sandor would gladly kill all of the BWB, but he wouldn't do it while they were sleeping?

It is both, and probably more as well.

He wants a fair fight. He doesn't want to be a kinslayer.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Well it wasn't so much about arguing that he must be a Tarbeck. The point is simply it has the feel of revenge; of hitting the Lannisters where it will be the most unpleasant for them. legacy and reputation.

The Tarbecks are just an example of a family, that if anyone happened to be alive, would be nursing a simmering rage against the Lannisters. But they are not the only ones of course.

I accept coincidence is possible. It just feels to me like it probably isn't. But we will see in the next book most likely.

I'm not certain either way. To be honest, I find it best not to marry myself to specific outcomes or ideas. If anything, I'm one who probably over thinks some aspects of the books, looking for the various ways things might turn out. With the HS and the specific sexual shaming of Cersei, I do think it may just speak to the commonality throughout history of religious authorities attitudes toward sexuality in general and women in particular. In this particular instance, if Cersei's walk is any way related to the past of the Lannisters, it's probably just because Tywin made it famous by doing it to someone himself.

It could go in almost any direction. That's my feeling about most elements of the story.

[RavenKing23]

Im still seeing it differently, I took it at the Hand's tourney the reason he fought defense was because he was terrified. I highly doubt Sandor would care to be labeled as a kinslayer, and im absolutely certain he doesn't give two shits about fighting fair.

Its always worse when you hit back, thats always the case with bullying. I thought he was relived when Robert called for the halt which is why he bent the knee so fast. Fire and Gregor would be interchangable to Sandor, escpecially if you believe he suffers from PTSD which I do.

So no, I don't believe he'll ever get over his hate for Gregor, theres just too much and for too long, about two decades since he was burned. So even if Robert Strong is some dead remnant of his brother Sandor will still go after him. You just can't let go of that kinda fear and hate, its impossible. . . Of course GRRM could write otherwise, so (shrugs)