GRRM is a bad writer?

[Les Météores D]

He's no Tolstoy but I don't think that's his goal. I had difficulties going through the first novels time to time because the archaic prose is a bit clumsy and not subtle, but ADwD has some really great and beautifully written parts, Theon's chapters especially. It's also more difficult to use multiple pov rather than third person narration

I believe GRRM has read The Accursed Kings by Druon and it shows, but his 'medieval' prose is way better than Druon's (who received lots of literary prices)... so...

[Kyoshi]

I think he's pretty good. He manages to create an incredibly complex world with complex people with complex histories using very simple words. There's nothing pretentious about his writing, he doesn't try to seem a smart writer. One of the things I enjoy most when reading his work is that with each POV I get a different person. From the way Sansa narrates her life like an innocent girl with her diary, to the way Theon transforms, to the way Cersei displays paranoia with every sentence. I don't imagine that's an easy thing to do. And although his language is simple, the books are in no way dumbed down. I'd say he's pretty good, better than most.

[Skythe1]

I just have to say that if anything I think writing each chapter from a different POV and not using a blanket narrator is arguably the easier way of doing it.

[JP Dayne]

I've read very few books in my 31 years of existence. Even fewer in english, since it's not my main language. I prefer more dynamic ways to get inserted in a narrative (games, movies, series, etc). I didn't like much, the quality dropped consistently since ACOK (I liked ASOS but it dragged too much at some point -- still not as near as AFFC). GRRM can create a world and he's really good at that, but since he's slow as fuck and the delivered product is not even a 6/10, yeah, I'd say he isn't good overall.

[imopatis]

I find it mysterious how members of a GRRM fan site with several hundered posts to their names are seriously putting forward opinions that he is a bad writer.

But maybe GRRM fans are just as mysterious as prohesies out of Asshai.....

[WexPyke]

George is a good fantasy writer. His writing is some of the best currently in the genre. That said his writing choices in the last two books are so different from the first two that it is jarring at points. Pacing being one.

[LordStoneheart]

By the end, if every single plot line doesn't pan out completely (and I doubt they will) I'll consider naming feast and dance "bad."

I think his mistake here was just thinking people would be as interested in Dorne and the Iron Islands. I think if he just dropped the chapters these two regions and restructured feast and dance with all the major characters, he'd have two amazing books. Not that the other chapters are bad, they're well written, but they give the whole thing a sense of dissonance. None of the new POV's in feast and dance feel necessary or helpful.

[Jo498]

I think he is way above average in the contemporary fantasy genre. Unfortunately this could be read as "damning with faint praise", but I do not mean in this way.

I am in the process of slowly re-reading the series (just finisched GoT), so I might revise the judgment, but 3 years ago my disappointment with DWD was not only the pacing and that too many lines became ever more entangled instead of tied up, but also stylistic issues. He tends to overdo some things (heraldry, clothing and food description) and some formulaic sentences were repeated so frequently that they made be cringe after a while. Also, I think the differentiations of tone and speech according to character and situation were handled better in the earlier books. Now everybody is speaking and thinking in four-letter-words whereas earlier this was mainly when Tyrions would banter with Bronn or Littlefinger use obscenities to get on Ned's nerves. (Even the hill tribe guy spoke of "cutting of one's manhood", not c*ck. As English is not my first language I am not squeamish at all about the vocab, but it seems a differentiation lost.)

He would have needed a more strict and critical editor for books 4 and 5.

A general problem of the "viewpoints" style, apparently not recognized by many writers, is that this approach tends to make things rather longwinded and often redundant. Very often it's not "show, don't tell!", but "show AND tell twice over in italicized inner speech and than show and tell the same thing another time from a different character's perspective". And sorry, but not all those childhood recollections etc. are interesting enough to make a character "deep" or complex.

Of contemporary fantasy, I think Gaiman is slightly better in style, pacing and atmosphere (although he has not written anything on the ASoIF scale, so it may be easier to keep a high quality). Abercrombie is not as good as Martin (very formulaic, the anxiety before a battle ALWAYS made Dogman feeling the need to take a piss and it was mentioned EVERY bloody time explicitly), but usually not so bad that I want to stop reading. Brett is rather terrible (a pity, because the core idea ;) of his series is great, too bad it dissolves pretty much into standard tropes badly written within the 2nd book.

[sj4iy]

It's a crazy minority. You have to understand some people on this forum are aspiring writers. So in order to make themselves feel better they trash an author who is literally one of the best of his Genre and time.

I'm not a writer at all- why can't someone honestly critique a book, even if they like it? I read many things that I wouldn't put up with the best literature...but that doesn't make them less fun to read.

I also haven't seen anyone here "trash" Martin...just give honest opinions on what they think he does well and what they think he doesn't. It's not an either/or situation. We don't have to live him completely or hate him completely. Just like I'm sure many of us don't love or hate the show completely.

It's not baffling at all, really.

[Skythe1]

I'm not a writer at all- why can't someone honestly critique a book, even if they like it?

Because freedom of speech is a terribly hard concept to grasp for some people apparently.

[Bowen]

I bet people on the Terry Goodkind forums say the same thing ;)

He's a good writer, a top writer in fact, but he's not one of the best IMO. I liked the use of literally though, just so we knew you weren't speaking figuratively :)

Terry Goodkind,wowzers I've just read a book of his called a debt of bones and it was truly awful,seems very lame after reading GRRM.

I loved Feast actually but I can see why some don't like it,have to say I think the Mercy chapter from the upcoming WoW is very well written.

There are certain chapters I find unable to read again and that is surely a testament to how well written they are,hard to explain but that impending doom thing going on with Rob is very well done IMO.

[michaelx]

He is decent on a mainstream level. Sort of like JK Rowling, Stephen King and shit.

But in terms of real academia - Not even close. Proust, Dickens, Austen, Whitman etc.. would solo this clown. XD

Never mind guys like shakespeare, milton and stuff.

[Skythe1]

He is decent on a mainstream level. Sort of like JK Rowling, Stephen King and shit.

But in terms of real academia - Not even close. Proust, Dickens, Austen, Whitman etc.. would solo this clown. XD

Never mind guys like shakespeare, milton and stuff.

I'm sorry but Milton, Dickens and Austen are 3 of the most boring writers I have ever read. Comparing them to a fantasy novelist is way off base anyway, and they weren't academics at all.

[Alex21]

I don't see how he can be a bad writer. His prose is amazing and he has a unique creativity. And unlike all those people who were disappointed for the last 2 books I have to say he did it well, he slow down the whole story following a book (ASOS) full of events, that was one thing that I liked the most , and as I see these 2 books prepare what would be the best book of the series after ASOS: The Winds of Winter

[Pete Martell]

I'm sorry but Milton, Dickens and Austen are 3 of the most boring writers I have ever read. Comparing them to a fantasy novelist is way off base anyway, and they weren't academics at all.

This just goes to show how subjective literary quality actually is. I just can't be bothered to argue one way or another with these things, as it's not worth my time.

[sj4iy]

I don't see how he can be a bad writer. His prose is amazing and he has a unique creativity. And unlike all those people who were disappointed for the last 2 books I have to say he did it well, he slow down the whole story following a book (ASOS) full of events, that was one thing that I liked the most , and as I see these 2 books prepare what would be the best book of the series after ASOS: The Winds of Winter

I have to admit, I don't see how those two books have done anything to build up to TWoW. Most of the character arcs are drawn out through both of those books, only to suddenly end with a surprise or shock at the end of almost all of them. After ASoS (which is a natural halfway point), there was a perfect opportunity to start building up the story for the final endgame. Instead, the story meanders around, introducing us to a deluge of new characters in which we have no emotional interest, and puts the characters we actually care about in stasis in order to focus on the characters we don't. That's not good writing, that's getting lost in one's own story.

[Les Météores D]

I just have to say that if anything I think writing each chapter from a different POV and not using a blanket narrator is arguably the easier way of doing it.

Multiple POVs require from the author to create believable internal thoughts for each character, often with very different mindsets, and to move the plot forward without the advantages of an omniscient narrator.

[Talking Hodor]

I've seen several posters make the comment recently that GRRM is a bad writer. Comments often come in the form of "I love the story, but the man is not a good writer." Can someone shed some light on this for me? I'm an English major, so it's not like I haven't read other literature. I'm familiar with the classics as well as some modern day authors generally held in high regard, and yet I can't get behind the idea that GRRM created this wonderful story and these beautiful characters yet himself is a poor author. Some of his prose is genuinely beautiful and I could read a few passages over and over till the day I die. Are there many of you out there who feel he's not a good writer, or is it the minority?

I think there are a lot of bitter fans thanks to the huge gaps between books 3, 4, and 5 (and now 6, quite possibly), after relatively small gaps between 1, 2, and 3. Furthermore, the pace of books 4 and 5 are a lot slower than the first three, causing many to question how much effort GRRM is putting into his books anymore.

I for one liked all five books. The ending of book 5 had me so enthralled that I was standing over a bathroom sink (after brushing my teeth for bed), reading and reading and reading until I finished it (at around 3 a.m.). I was too enthralled to even walk 20 feet to a more comfortable chair. Book 3 was brilliant, but even it didn't have me reading like the end of book 5 did.

After I realized I had reached the end of the written material, I was super sad. There are about 10 cliff-hangers, at least, at the end of book 5, so the fans of this series are getting really anxious to find out what happened to, well, all the main characters that are stil alive at this point. I finished over a year ago, and the wait has been excruciating. I can't imagine what people who've been following it for nearly two decades are going through.

[Alex21]

I have to admit, I don't see how those two books have done anything to build up to TWoW. Most of the character arcs are drawn out through both of those books, only to suddenly end with a surprise or shock at the end of almost all of them. After ASoS (which is a natural halfway point), there was a perfect opportunity to start building up the story for the final endgame. Instead, the story meanders around, introducing us to a deluge of new characters in which we have no emotional interest, and puts the characters we actually care about in stasis in order to focus on the characters we don't. That's not good writing, that's getting lost in one's own story.

Well I don't know, I suppose I have my own way to how determine who is a good writer or a bad one, let's wait for TWOW, but I have to admit that I will be upset if Martin keeps his currently writing in the next book, It's moment to start to write more actively

[Talking Hodor]

whoops accidental repost.