JonSnow4President Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Putting blinders on . . . Lyanna dies of a fever (Puerperal) after asking Ned to promise. Howland and someone else find Ned holding her hand, after she has died. Jon was born not more than ten days before Ned arrived, and not less than three days before. Is there confirmation of Puerperal fever, or is that just a diagnosis based on symptoms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Is there confirmation of Puerperal fever, or is that just a diagnosis based on symptoms? I don't think it's confirmed because puerperal fever is only in instances of childbirth; confirming it would mean confirmation that Lyanna was pregnant to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 To complicate matters even more, I checked the Wiki, which has Ned and Cat marrying/conceiving Robb after the Battle of Bells, several months into RR. That makes the timeline even WORSE since Robb is supposedly older than Jon - but this is not physically possible if 1) Robb were conceived after Jon, and 2) RR only lasted about a year. It seems to me that you are making some bad assumptions about Jon's conception birth. Yes, according to canon, Ned's and Jon Arryn's wedding occur after the Battle of the Bells. And, I personally have Lyann missing for four or so months when ned marries, Robb is conceived. I am pretty sure that Lyanna and Rhaegar took their time to plan, and that Rhaegar may have resisted Lyanna's plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I don't think it's confirmed because puerperal fever is only in instances of childbirth; confirming it would mean confirmation that Lyanna was pregnant to begin with. This. If we start with the premise that she was pregnant, it's the best fit for the symptoms as described (fever, bleeding). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ah yes. So the plot definitly existed before Rhaegar left. That leaves the question whether or not Rhaegar knew about it. I cannot believe that Rhaegar would have been present for Chelsted's roasting (Jonothor Darry was present afterwards, when Rhaella was raped) without knowing the reasons, whether Aerys would tell him the truth or not. There must be a reason for Rhaegar to have become determined "to make some changes" after he returned from putting down the rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 By the by--a pregnancy lasts 39-40 weeks or 9 moons three weeks to 10 moonsDanerys born 9 moons after her flight from KL---AGOT chapter 3....makes her conception 21 to 28 days earlier.. than previous assertions... Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’... SSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 This. If we start with the premise that she was pregnant, it's the best fit for the symptoms as described (fever, bleeding). Bed of Blood is defined as "childbirth", in story. It refers to nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Is there confirmation of Puerperal fever, or is that just a diagnosis based on symptoms? There is confirmation of a fever.... Peurperal fever is a common post pregnancy fever that can be fatal. That is reasonable... AGOT Ned Chapter 4 confirms the fever and Ned's presence for Lyanna's death. It also confirms that an unspecified "They" including Howland find Ned holding Lyanna's hand after she died.... Lyanna died of a fever 3 to 10 days after birth, Ned was there They including Howland Reed were there None of that is related to Ned's arrival at the ToJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Bed of Blood is defined as "childbirth", in story. It refers to nothing else. So Ned found Lyanna in childbirth. She died 3 to 10 days later of fever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 There is confirmation of a fever.... Peurperal fever is a common post pregnancy fever that can be fatal. That is reasonable... AGOT Ned Chapter 4 confirms the fever and Ned's presence for Lyanna's death. It also confirms that an unspecified "They" including Howland find Ned holding Lyanna's hand after she died.... Lyanna died of a fever 3 to 10 days after birth, Ned was there They including Howland Reed were there None of that is related to Ned's arrival at the ToJ Oh, I get she died of fever (and actually agree about Peurperal fever). Just playing devil's advocate, wondering if we had confirmation that it was Peurperal fever and not something like Rheagar-just-died-so-let's-get-sick fever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I cannot believe that Rhaegar would have been present for Chelsted's roasting (Jonothor Darry was present afterwards, when Rhaella was raped) without knowing the reasons, whether Aerys would tell him the truth or not. There must be a reason for Rhaegar to have become determined "to make some changes" after he returned from putting down the rebellion. Exactly. And Rhaegar went to the Trident seemingly convinced that he would return. If he knew about the wildfire plot (and with wmall you've pointed out, I don't see how he couldn't have known), he would have known what the wildfire was for: to burn KL should the enemy come knocking on the door.Since Rhaegar was convinced he would return to KL, there was no need to try and stop the wildfire plot before he left. I do think that Rhaegar had been plotting to "make changes" when Harrenhal occured, but that the comet he saw the night of Aegons conception halted those plans (Aerys' presence at Harrenhal would have halted any immediate plans, Aegons conception would have halted any substitute plan). Aerys' actions during the Rebellion will have brought those plans back in Rhaegars head (and in addition, the dragons third head was safe and about to be born, so Rhaegar had nothing to worry about prophecy-wise, or so he thought, I think). And the return of those plans in Rhaegars mind would then have been what inspired the speech Rhaegar gave Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh, I get she died of fever (and actually agree about Peurperal fever). Just playing devil's advocate, wondering if we had confirmation that it was Peurperal fever and not something like Rheagar-just-died-so-let's-get-sick fever I give you Bed of Blood is defined as "childbirth", in story. It refers to nothing else. He is right... Ned found lyanna in her "bed of blood" She died 3 to 10 days later of fever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh, I get she died of fever (and actually agree about Peurperal fever). Just playing devil's advocate, wondering if we had confirmation that it was Peurperal fever and not something like Rheagar-just-died-so-let's-get-sick fever Padme Amidala disease? :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 So Ned found Lyanna in childbirth. She died 3 to 10 days later of fever. She already had the fever when Ned entered her room and Lyanna gave up her life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Padme Amidala disease? :rofl: Glad I'm understandable. Ned found lyanna in her "bed of blood" She died 3 to 10 days later of fever If we're being technical, nothing is stopping Rheagar-just-died-so-let's-get-sick fever (or hell, ebola or something if we most) from killing her 3-10 days after childbirth. Occam's Razor says we can link the two as that's the simplest explanation, but the two don't HAVE to be linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 So Ned found Lyanna in childbirth. She died 3 to 10 days later of fever. What part of "refers" did you not understand? ETA: Nevermind, I forgot who it was . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 She already had the fever when Ned entered her room and Lyanna gave up her life. where do you get that? Just reread Got Chapter 4 page 40 Ned entering the room is not there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 where do you get that? Just reread Got Chapter 4 page 40 Ned entering the room is not there... I actually agree with you. I was mistaken and misremembering. However, MntLion and Rhaenys did a whole timeline things already. I'll refer back to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 If you're not happy with the timeline then how about the symbolism of "Our knees do not bend easily..." Yet one of the KG (Whent) is literally on one knee when Ned arrives, sharping a blade, prepared to defend his new King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 [...] when Harrenhal occured, but that the comet he saw the night of Aegons conception halted those plans I've always thought that was very funny. Either Rhaegar saw the comet and got all horny ("mmm... prophecy fulfilment...") or he was taking count of the days like a girl to remember when Aegon was conceived :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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