Hardhome theories

[I'm the Party Pooper]

I'm thinking a volcano erupted. Where else would the CotF get so much obsidian?

There was this theory going around some time ago that obsidian os nothing less than dragon's poop, including those who can't fly.

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

My favorite guesses would be traders from Braavos, which was still hidden at that time, and / or Ibben to have a storing place for the waletrane oil closer to the ports in the south.

This is something I could really buy into, and maybe that is also the reason for Hardhome getting consumed.

The Ibbenese would have created the town mostly for trade and to store their oil deposits, but as time progressed so did the town and the CotF would have seen as a threat to their land and attacked them en masse, targeting their oil which would have caused the town to be easily and quickly engulfed in flames (Because, as the HBO show points out, CotF can apparently shoot fire from their hands)

Even if it's not the case, I like anything to do with the mysterious world of Ib!

[sj4iy]

There was this theory going around some time ago that obsidian os nothing less than dragon's poop, including those who can't fly.

...of course, we know that obsidian is the result of cooled lava. Even if dragons can create it, volcanoes are still going to be a source of it, as well.

[Drth Fel]

The FM and the maesters worked together to test the Hammer of Dawn on Hardhome, after Dr. Fenix went back in time to prevent Emergence Day from happening. Seriously, though, the spontaneous combustion of whale oil, or even intentional ignition, is quite reasonable. Did anyone remember if there were earthquakes? It could've also been a meteorite impact.

[Snarky]

This is something I could really buy into, and maybe that is also the reason for Hardhome getting consumed.

The Ibbenese would have created the town mostly for trade and to store their oil deposits, but as time progressed so did the town and the CotF would have seen as a threat to their land and attacked them en masse, targeting their oil which would have caused the town to be easily and quickly engulfed in flames (Because, as the HBO show points out, CotF can apparently shoot fire from their hands)

Even if it's not the case, I like anything to do with the mysterious world of Ib!

Someone mentioned earlier about the Faceless Men being involved. Do you think it's possible the two groups were related in some way? My question would be though why did they choose to target Hardhome, why not some other settlement? Is it just how remote the settlement was so they could do it in secret?

[Ingelheim]

Volcano is what fits the description 100%.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

It would explain Mance .Wildlings have either blue or grey eyes Mance has brown eyes, Nettles has brown eyes.

[Ser Greg of House House]

I'm guessing Volcano too just because it could provide Obsydian...

[Mycah Bluth]

Volcanos can be active but not erupt. I'm imagining a nice warm area where a dragon may roost close to an area with plenty of food (seals and sea cows).

Now with the White Walkers seemingly advancing on Hardhome it may be enough to wake a slumbering Dragon.

Also, Danys dragons have never even seen snow let alone fly in it which they will be expected to do to fight the Walkers. We know Balerion, the largest dragon in Westeros history, struggled in the rain. Drogon is the largest of Danys dragons yet he is not yet half the size Balerion was. So my concern is this, if rain hindered Balerion what will blizzards do to Drogon?

So maybe there is a dragon in the North somewhere accustommed to the cold but able to bring fire to the Others.

I agree. I can picture dragons inhabiting the area around Hardhome's active volcanic site. Also, can dragons dig? What if they created underground lairs around there?

[lyannaisalive]

Reading about north of the wall I was reminded about the 'town' of Hardhome. It was said to be the only thing close to ever being a town north of the wall, before a night 600 years ago when the town was obliterated. It is on the eastern coast on Storrold's Point (just east of the Haunted Forest), and has never been resettled (until ADWD).

History says that one night the town was englufed by fire and burned so bright that people on the wall thought the sun was rising from the north. When later investigated it was reported that only a charred, smoking ruin of the town remained with burned corpses and screams coming from the caves nearby.

So my question is do you think that it was a dragon attack that destroyed Hardhome, and if it was, what dragons did this? As far as I know the Valyrians brought dragons with them to Westeros, so this would imply there were dragons actually native to westeros long before the Valyrians brought them over (about 300 years before Aegon). Is it possible that there are dragons still living the network of caves ('Screaming Caves'), and if so could these be the ice dragons some people theorize are going to be revealed in the series?

Its a certain possibility that dragons were the ones to cause it. They could have come from anywhere IIRC not every dragon had a rider so many were still wild. And I think it would be awesome if they were living in the network of caves.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I agree. I can picture dragons inhabiting the area around Hardhome's active volcanic site. Also, can dragons dig? What if they created underground lairs around there?

Yeah, Daenery's dragons were digging the stone and brick out from under the Pyramid in Mereen

[WildBlood]

Volcanos can be active but not erupt. I'm imagining a nice warm area where a dragon may roost close to an area with plenty of food (seals and sea cows).

Now with the White Walkers seemingly advancing on Hardhome it may be enough to wake a slumbering Dragon.

Also, Danys dragons have never even seen snow let alone fly in it which they will be expected to do to fight the Walkers. We know Balerion, the largest dragon in Westeros history, struggled in the rain. Drogon is the largest of Danys dragons yet he is not yet half the size Balerion was. So my concern is this, if rain hindered Balerion what will blizzards do to Drogon?

So maybe there is a dragon in the North somewhere accustommed to the cold but able to bring fire to the Others.

I was thinking much along the same lines. People are always so quick to dismiss the 'dragon' that Summer saw come out of the ruins of Winterfell. I believe it was a dragon, and what better place to move your dragon digs than to a place like Hardhome ;)

[Archmaester Drew]

From the wiki:

"Hardhome was close to becoming the only true town north of the Wall, until the night 600 years ago (about 300 years before Aegon's Landing) when hell had swallowed it. Something terrible happened that night; what exactly is uncertain. Its people are said to have been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on the tale one chooses believe.

The homes of the inhabitants of Hardhome were said to have burned with flames so high and hot that the watchers on the Wall far to the south thought that the sun was rising in from the north. Afterwards, ashes rained down on the haunted forest and the Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year.

Traders reported only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses and blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pock the great cliff that looms above the settlement.

After that Hardhome was shunned. The wildlings never settled the site again, and rangers roaming north of the Wall told tales of the overgrown ruins of Hardhome being haunted by ghouls, demons, and burning ghosts with an unhealthy taste for blood."

What happened at Hardhome? Is it connected to the Faceless Men and the Doom of Valaria? Was this a test of their revenge?

Thoughts?

:)

[Archmaester Drew]

This question is inspired by the thread/youtube video by Danzie:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/114630-the-hardhomeold-valyria-conspiracy-video/

;)

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

This is my cobbling together of other crackpot theories into something kind of unique about Hardhome.

Crackpot Theory:

In ASOIAF, two huge, civilization-destroying disasters exist in history, and another one is about to happen. First Hardhome, then Valyria and now Westeros, with the imminent collapse of the Wall.

And the Faceless Men have everything to do with them. ALL THREE.

Let’s take a look at the disaster at Hardhome:

“Hardhome was close to becoming the only true town north of the Wall.”

“The homes of the inhabitants of Hardhome were said to have burned with flames so high and hot that the watchers on the Wall far to the south thought that the sun was rising in from the north.”

“a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses and blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pock the great cliff that looms above the settlement…”

“…haunted by ghouls, demons, and burning ghosts with an unhealthy taste for blood.”

Some two hundred years later, The Doom of Valyria happens. And there’s all the same elements: volcanically hot fires, demons, the land is ruined, and no one is sure exactly why.

And now an apocalypse looms over Westeros. What do Hardhome, Valyria and Westeros all have in common? Well, from a certain point of view, all these places are disasters happened to places where humanity, well, got a little too big for its own britches.

Think about it. Valyria was at the height of its power, and cruelty. It worked its slaves to death by the tens of thousands in the mines. It was like 1950s America, but with dragons and swords. Hardhome was growing as well.

In the long summer of Robert’s rule, Westeros was as rich and peaceful as it’s ever been, but the nobility are allowed to murder and steal from the peasants at will, a situation similar to the one in Valyria.

The Kindly Man has strongly implied to Arya that they were connected to the Doom. The first Faceless Man killed a master in return for the life of the slave. The Doom is basically that whole bargain blown-up in size. All the masters died, as well as the slaves. The Kindly Man also provided a likely cause for the Doom: firewyrms. Like dragons, they are massive and breathe fire, but live underground in Valyria’s volcanoes, and where there before the dragons were. Giants in the earth.

What can wake “giants from the earth”? The Horn of Winter.

If the Faceless Men somehow got a hold of the Horn, and blew it, either purposefully or accidently, Hardhome (which apparently had some kind of volcanic system under it that made the town unnaturally warm) was the test run for Valyria.

The question that remains here is how it got back to the Fist. The cache Sam found doesn’t seem to have been very old. They black cloak they were wrapped in was faded and old, but not ancient. It would have rotted completely away over the thousands of years otherwise. Did the Faceless Men not know about its connection to the Wall, and fearing it, returned it to where it was originally found? The Faceless Men don’t seem like the type to be easily scared, but if this thing caused the Doom, even they might have decided that it was too dangerous to leave hanging around. So, return it to the vast wilderness from whence it came, and hope it never shows up again. To be completely honest, I’m confused about why Bloodraven never found it.

And now we get to the issue of “Pate” (who is clearly the man once called Jagen J’Haqar of Lorath). “Pate” is in Oldtown, with Samwell Tarly, who, for some strange reason has held onto the horn he found at the Fist. Everything else in the cache has since been lost. Except that horn. That can’t be by accident.

Oh, and where is Sam from? Horn Hill.

If the Horn from the Fist is the Horn of Winter, then a Faceless Man, whose exact purpose for being in Westeros in the first place was never specified, is now in close in proximity to it. If he gets his hands on it, then he can give the impoverished, decimated, oppressed smallfolk the exact sort of bargain given to the slaves of Valyria: the gift of mercy, an end to all their suffering, in return for their lives, vis-à-vis ice zombies.

“Slaves have nothing but their lives” to offer as a sacrifice to Him of Many Faces.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I believe it was Tze who had the theory (or worked off of the theory/elaborated on the theory) that what happened at Hardhome was a failed Valyrian invasion that failed because wargs in that part of the North tried/were able to take over the dragons and battle the riders for control of them. Those fights (warged dragon vs. dragon still under Valyrian control) would explain the place being charred over. If Valyria once tried to invade Westeros and failed spectacularly, it would also explain why they never tried to do it again until Aegon (who made sure to land much further south).

Tyrion wonders why the Valyrians never tried to conquer Westeros despite all its wealth and resources. "They knew what was there," etc. Yes, they did know what was there, which is why they stayed the hell away.

[Archmaester Drew]

Good stuff! Thanks, SacredOrderOfGreenMen and Apple Martini! :cheers:

Fascinating!

:)

[Bryanfury]

Def a subscriber to the 'Valyrians got schooled by the First Men' theory. As AM says, there's a reason why the Valyrians stayed away from Westeros and basically magically taking control of beasts is something is the only thing that would deter a people that rides giant fire-breathing flying beasts

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

'Valyrians got schooled by the First Men' theory.

That is a fanatastic name for a theory. So fanatastic I might consider converting.

[Archmaester Drew]

<snip>

If the Horn from the Fist is the Horn of Winter, then a Faceless Man, whose exact purpose for being in Westeros in the first place was never specified, is now in close in proximity to it. If he gets his hands on it, then he can give the impoverished, decimated, oppressed smallfolk the exact sort of bargain given to the slaves of Valyria: the gift of mercy, an end to all their suffering, in return for their lives, vis-à-vis ice zombies.

“Slaves have nothing but their lives” to offer as a sacrifice to Him of Many Faces.

My question is, why would the Faceless Men be concerned with Westeros now (other than to retrieve the horn)? They have no vendetta against the Westerosi as they did Valyria. It would seem that they would be more interested in Slaver's Bay or Volantis where slavery was still rampant if they were planning another such event.

:)