Are there any dark-haired half-Targaryens?

[Red Rahloo Connington]

Who's the D in R+L=D?

Is the other one supposed to be Brandon and Ashara as Jon's parents? I never understood that reasoning. It makes no sense that Ned would be passing Brandon's bastard as his. Why the heck would he do that?! And why keep the identity of the mother, and the father, such a big secret? Not to mention constantly thinking about a promise to Lyanna, about Lyanna and Rhaegar. ..

There is this youtube video that proposes the idea that Dany is Lyana and Rhaegars daughter, and Jon is Brand and Asharas son.

[RickonKITN]

Think there might be some lad in the north... I'm not sure though ...

[The Killer Snark]

The silvery hair and fair skin of the Targaryens is the result of a recessive genetic trait, which is why they got into the practise of inbreeding in an effort to keep their physical characteristics pure in their bloodline. The black hair gene dominates the Targaryen silvery hair gene every time they come into contact. There is multiple evidence for this throughout the books.

[Game Of Thrones]

Yep, Steffon Baratheon.

[Aemond's Eye]

Thanks everyone - guess I should finally read Dunk and Egg. If only the author made it easier to do..

Eh? It's not hard to get your hands on the stories. You can buy the anthologies, and the first two are available as graphic novels.

[Game Of Thrones]

What's R+L=D and A+B=J?

[shockwave]

Jacerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Valeryon

Baelor Breakspear

Daeron the Drunk

Steffon Baratheon

Jon Snow

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Jacaerys Velaryon

Lucerys Velaryon

Joffrey Velaryon

Baelor Targaryen (Breakspear)

Valarr Targaryen

Daeron Targaryen (The Drunken)

Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers

The son of Daenerys Targaryen and Maron Martell

Rhaenys Targaryen

Steffon Baratheon (most likely had the Baratheon looks, as they had been passed on to Robert)

And Jon Snow, per R+L=J

There's plenty of Targaryens or children of Targaryens who didn't have the Valyrian looks. ;)

Genuine question. Is this youtube guy doing some sort of social media campaign to have his stupid put on display as much as possible? It's almost starting to look like he spent a lot of time pulling a big prank.

It's almost starting to feel this way, yes.

[Red Rahloo Connington]

Does Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers count? Or are we not counting the bastards?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Breakspear, Bittersteel, Rhaenys, Lucerys, Joff, Jace, Valarr, Martells, Baratheons, Daeron and Jon.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Does Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers count? Or are we not counting the bastards?

He's half-Targ by blood. He counts.

[Red Rahloo Connington]

He's half-Targ by blood. He counts.

Question, since Aegon IV Targaryen legitimized all his bastards on his death bed, why do they still hold their bastard names (Rivers, Seastar)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Question, since Aegon IV Targaryen legitimized all his bastards on his death bed, why do they still hold their bastard names (Rivers, Seastar)

They don't hold their bastard names (Rivers, Waters), but their nicknames (Blackfyre, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, Seastar). And that's because of politics. Blackfyre puts weight on the fact that he got the sword of the King, Bittersteel doesn't interfere with Blackfyre like Targaryen would, Bloodraven doesn't interfere with Daeron Targaryen and Seastar does neither.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Longtime lurker and longtime R+L=J believer here. I just watched the latest Preston Jacobs video on YouTube espousing R+L=D and B+A=J. I'm not sold on his theory, but it's the first time I've legitimately questioned R+L=J .

It seems every Targaryen we see in ASOIAF has the aggressive white hair / purple-eyed Valyrian look. Meanwhile we see Ned and Cat produce one child that favors Ned (Arya) and three more that favor Cat so we know the Stark look doesn't dominate. If we think back to AGoT, the fact that Baratheons never produce blonde children was taken to be strong evidence of the twincest. The Baratheon dark-haired look dominates.

As I'm typing this I'm reminded that Stannis, Robert, and Renly are part Targ and have no evidence of Valyrian looks, but they're more distant than half-Targ.

Are there any half-Targs that have dark hair and dark eyes? If not, what does that say about R+L=J?

Stay away from Preston Jacobs videos, they guy has no idea what he is talking about and ignores evidence like timelines to make his stuff seem legit.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Question, since Aegon IV Targaryen legitimized all his bastards on his death bed, why do they still hold their bastard names (Rivers, Seastar)

Legitimating bastards doesn't automatically mean they take the house name. The head of the House gets to decide that.

They don't hold their bastard names (Rivers, Waters), but their nicknames (Blackfyre, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, Seastar). And that's because of politics. Blackfyre puts weight on the fact that he got the sword of the King, Bittersteel doesn't interfere with Blackfyre like Targaryen would, Bloodraven doesn't interfere with Daeron Targaryen and Seastar does neither.

Brynden Rivers is still called Lord Rivers in the D&E novels ;)

Bittersteel and Bloodraven are nicknames, not their last names. Brynden is called Brynden Rivers, not Brynden Bloodraven.

Seastar was the last name given to Shiera upon her birth, for an unknown reason.

Blackfyre was the last name Daemon choose for his house, after he had been legitimized. Brynden and Aegor did not choose to do such a thing.

[Annara Snow]

The silvery hair and fair skin of the Targaryens is the result of a recessive genetic trait, which is why they got into the practise of inbreeding in an effort to keep their physical characteristics pure in their bloodline. The black hair gene dominates the Targaryen silvery hair gene every time they come into contact. There is multiple evidence for this throughout the books.

Again, not true, since Maekar had silver hair like his father Daeron, rather than dark hair like his mother Mariya Martell.

There is no evidence that either of the genes "dominates" the other, and if the silver hair gene is recessive, that doesn't mean that a dark haired person and a silver haired person will necessarily have dark haired children. This is not how genetics work. The dark haired person may have a recessive silver hair gene.

Furthermore, the Targ looks and characteristics don't have to be recessive for them to resort to incest to preserve them. If it's dominant, it would also get less prevalent in the family after they have been interbreeding with people with different genes for a few generations. (That only doesn't happen in GRRM's fictional Baratheon genetic rules, which make zero sense in terms of real life genetics.)

And in terms of trying to preserve the Targ genes as a reason for inbreeding, if they're trying to preserve anything it would be their mystical bond with dragons, not silver hair or whatever (which most of the population of Valyria had anyway and most people from Lys of today have as well, so it would not be a reason for incest).

Bottom line... A child could have the hair color of their dad, or of their mom. Both are equally possible. Or it could skip a generation or two and the kid can have the hair color of a grandpa or grandma. It's as simple as that.

[Red Rahloo Connington]

They don't hold their bastard names (Rivers, Waters), but their nicknames (Blackfyre, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, Seastar). And that's because of politics. Blackfyre puts weight on the fact that he got the sword of the King, Bittersteel doesn't interfere with Blackfyre like Targaryen would, Bloodraven doesn't interfere with Daeron Targaryen and Seastar does neither.

When Bloodraven introduces himself to Bran he refers to himself by Bryndem Rivers, shouldn't it be Brynden Targaryen since he is legitimized ?

[DavosSeaworthy]

When Bloodraven introduces himself to Bran he refers to himself by Bryndem Rivers, shouldn't it be Brynden Targaryen since he is legitimized ?

Bloodraven went by Rivers to keep himself out of the line of succession.

[Annara Snow]

There is this youtube video that proposes the idea that Dany is Lyana and Rhaegars daughter, and Jon is Brand and Asharas son.

:lol: What?! I mentioned why the latter makes no sense, but Dany...?!?!?!? That is even more absurd.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

When Bloodraven introduces himself to Bran he refers to himself by Bryndem Rivers, shouldn't it be Brynden Targaryen since he is legitimized ?

No. He got to choose. He choose not to take the name Targaryen.