Why do people believe in alternative medicine?

[eyenon15]

Idk if this counts as alternative medicine but I'm convinced donating plasma cures the common cold, fever, and flu.

I would like some scientific study done on it, or if it's already been tested. But donating plasma works better(on me) than any pill or syrup I've ever been given by a doctor

[Aemon Stark]

Or they could maybe think about what aspects of modern western medicine is maybe not so ideal, because if it were, people wouldn't turn to alternative methods? For example, the average doctor only spends 5 minutes on a patient. Not that unlikely that they often don't manage to find out the real reason for the patient's problem in those 5 minutes.

And e.g. it's also not ideal that doctors often unnecessarily give patients medication with side effects, just because they taught the patients to demand antibiotics for every silly thing. Like minor colds caused by viruses. Where antibiotics don't work. But because 'alternative' medicine is ridiculed, doctors feel that they can't tell their patients to just stay in bed and drink herbal teas or whatever.

Excuse me, but when have physicians ever taught patients to "demand" antibiotics? Usually patients come in with an expectation of getting a script or a test arranged or whatever and need reassurance that, yes, their cold should get better in a few days and, yes, Tylenol is safe to take at 1 gm three of four times a day.

[Weeping Sore]

Idk if this counts as alternative medicine but I'm convinced donating plasma cures the common cold, fever, and flu.

I would like some scientific study done on it, or if it's already been tested. But donating plasma works better(on me) than any pill or syrup I've ever been given by a doctor

Lol. I'm not sure bringing back bloodletting is going to be popular. The idea behind bloodletting was getting rid of the "bad blood", which I don't think would really work unless you got a complete transfusion.

Maybe the trauma of blood loss is somehow triggering a more robust immune response?

[Aemon Stark]

Idk if this counts as alternative medicine but I'm convinced donating plasma cures the common cold, fever, and flu.

I would like some scientific study done on it, or if it's already been tested. But donating plasma works better(on me) than any pill or syrup I've ever been given by a doctor

Doesn't seem like a very practical way of treating minor self-limited viral infections. While it might indeed make you feel better, since symptoms are directly related to immune response, I'm not sure it would do anything for viral clearance.

In any case, it is very irresponsible to donating blood while sick, and worse even that blood donation centres aren't turning you away.

[eyenon15]

They're plasma donation centers, not blood donation.

Not sure why they call it donating since they pay you.

[MerenthaClone]

Excuse me, but when have physicians ever taught patients to "demand" antibiotics? Usually patients come in with an expectation of getting a script or a test arranged or whatever and need reassurance that, yes, their cold should get better in a few days and, yes, Tylenol is safe to take at 1 gm three of four times a day.

Yeah, at least where I work, my MDs would be fucking chewed out for getting an antibiotics scrip for a viral infection. We do use Vancomycin and Zosyn quickly and frequently, but we're also the ICU responsible for managing acute sepsis. Evidence-based practice shows that very, very early administration of antibiotics in septic patients has significant improvements in hospital stay and mortality, which is why we're reversing the normal trend in antibiotics prescription. But otherwise, we're pretty damn cagey with our antibiotics because the societal risks in using them are quite high. Its one of the longest topics of conversations in rounds, actually: our pharmacist and intensivist lecturing the resident/intern about using the proper antibiotic.

edit: Plasma is a blood product.

[Aemon Stark]

Maybe the trauma of blood loss is somehow triggering a more robust immune response?

The systemic symptoms you feel during a cold are due to an already robust immune response. At the extreme of bacteremia/sepsis, this causes excessive vasodilation, low blood pressure, decreased tissue perfusion, shock, and eventually, if allowed to worsen, multi-organ failure.

There is a peculiar fixation with remedies to "boost" your immune system during a cold, but that inevitably betrays a lack of understanding about the immune system. What do you think gives you the fever or muscle aches or malaise? It isn't the virus usually...

[Aemon Stark]

They're plasma donation centers, not blood donation.

Not sure why they call it donating since they pay you.

All the more reason to ban paid plasma donation.

Yeah, at least where I work, my MDs would be fucking chewed out for getting an antibiotics scrip for a viral infection. We do use Vancomycin and Zosyn quickly and frequently, but we're also the ICU responsible for managing acute sepsis. Evidence-based practice shows that very, very early administration of antibiotics in septic patients has significant improvements in hospital stay and mortality, which is why we're reversing the normal trend in antibiotics prescription. But otherwise, we're pretty damn cagey with our antibiotics because the societal risks in using them are quite high. Its one of the longest topics of conversations in rounds, actually: our pharmacist and intensivist lecturing the resident/intern about using the proper antibiotic.

edit: Plasma is a blood product.

Yay for early goal-directed therapy. Except for that CVP part.

[eyenon15]

All the more reason to ban paid plasma donation.

What's the reason?

[MerenthaClone]

CVP? Only acronym I'm coming up with is central venous pressure, which I'm sure is related but I'm not sure how.

What's the reason?

Incentivizes you going to donate blood products when you're sick?

[eyenon15]

Incentivizes you going to donate blood products when you're sick?

Why is it bad?

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

All the more reason to ban paid plasma donation.

Yes, I'm curious too for the reason you think this should be banned. As I understand it, these non-profit blood "donation" centers actually sell their blood products to local hospitals and other organizations. If they can make it part of their model to funnel a small part of that cash back to the people who are supplying them, what's the harm?

I live in the Northeast, and used to regularly donate platelets. I didn't get paid, but they had some kind of rewards program where you could get gift cards or products if you donated enough "points" worth of blood products. But it's my understanding that in places in the Midwest, where the population was far less dense, it was routine to simply pay people for platelet donations because the blood banks were selling it to hospitals for a decent margin.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Incentivizes you going to donate blood products when you're sick?

Payment creates incentives period, whether you're healthy or sick. Is there any evidence to suggest that the cost of screening out "bad" (tainted) product is higher than the increased amount of good product that gets brought in because of the incentive?

[Game Of Thrones]

With regards to those who prefer alternative medicine, I'll just say this. Before modern medicine, people didn't live very long. They died and they died in terrible ways and what would be considered a middle aged man would have been an elderly man just 150 years ago. With modern medicine we've been able to cure so many disease and ease the suffering of others. Hell, you can have a surgeon cut you open and replace your organs(even your heart) and not feel a thing while they've got your insides exposed. Modern medicine is great. That's not to say that alternative cures can't sometimes work, particularly in regards to promoting overall health/preventative medicine, but if you have a serious illness and you're considering alternative medicine....don't. Seriously....see a doctor and get that shit treated.

Just because they're trying to make money from sick people doesn't mean they are trying to keep them sick. It's in their benefit to cure them, otherwise what would be the point?

You don't try to fix your plumbing yourself because you think the plumber will sneak behind your back and damage your pipes in a way that they'll need fixing down the road. I'm sure there are shady plumbers, but for the most part they're there to fix the problem and they know you'll need a plumber again eventually anyway, because washers, pipes, etc go bad often enough to keep the industry going. People have always gotten sick and needed medicine and they always will. Pharmaceutical companies don't need to make you sick to stay in business. There is already enough demand.

Private labs research botanicals all the time. They can and will find a way to patent the cure as well, even if most of the ingredients are naturally occuring. Just because the recipe for a cure comes from natural resources doesn't mean other companies can just copy that recipe. They can and will make their money with a natural cure....a natural cure that is refined and precisely delivered that is.

Exactly.

OMG. You are amazing. Exactly what I wanted to say.

[Game Of Thrones]

OP here.

In the country I'm from (I don't live there right now), TCM is not alternative medicine, and I don't view it as equal to homeopathy or sun gazing in craziness.

Same for most traditional medicines.

[Game Of Thrones]

I hate homeopathy. More than I hate anti-evolution, which is saying something. And that is, sadly, what comes to my mind first when I think 'alternative medicine'.

[Weeping Sore]

There is a peculiar fixation with remedies to "boost" your immune system during a cold, but that inevitably betrays a lack of understanding about the immune system. What do you think gives you the fever or muscle aches or malaise? It isn't the virus usually...

Dude, I wasn't really defending bloodletting as a practice...

You're absolutely right, fever is an immune response, one of the body's attempts to kill the infection. In which case even the use of acetaminophen or ibuprofen to reduce fever could prolong the illness (of course measures should nevertheless be taken with a dangerously high fever).

As for "immunity boosters", you're right that it makes more sense to take them (assuming they are effective) when well rather than when already sick. Though perhaps we could imagine factors that could make an immune response in progress more effective without exacerbating the symptoms of immune response, (i.e., the "collateral damage")

[aceluby]

I hate homeopathy. More than I hate anti-evolution, which is saying something. And that is, sadly, what comes to my mind first when I think 'alternative medicine'.

Um... isn't making your own chicken soup from a chicken carcass to get micro-nutrients into the system to boost immune system response a form of 'homeopathy'? It's just finding ways to have your body heal itself, since that's kind of what it's supposed to do anyway. A lot of western medicine is also based on this as well, like physical therapy. Not sure why anyone would 'hate' it, it's nothing like being anti-evolution at all.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

aceluby: Strictly, no. Homeopathy in its original form is the idea that what causes an illness in a healthy person will cure it in a sick person. In addition to this, a more dilute solution is considered more potent*, and the founder advocated for dilutions of 1:10^60.

This is different from the more general "natural medicine" or "traditional medicines", which have many of the stumbling blocks already mentioned. (E.g., figuring out the placebo effect, the parts that can be isolated and studied just become "medicine" in Western countries, etc.)

*Not that a more potent original item needs to be diluted more, but that more dilution makes the solution stronger.

[aceluby]

This is the definition I read (though I read yours as well):

Homeopathy, or homeopathic medicine, is a medical philosophy and practice based on the idea that the body has the ability to heal itself. Homeopathy was founded in the late 1700s in Germany and has been widely practiced throughout Europe.