Theory: The Storm God represents the CotF (fixed quoting issues)

[Luddsthirdmorph]

One interesting thing is that we now seem to have found two pairs of ancient (ie pre the Seven) Gods

The Storm God (associated with the Stormlands) and the Wind Godess that gave rise to the Durrendens

The Drowned God (associated with the Iron Islands) and the Wave Goddess associated with the Sisters

Other old Gods of which we have heard include

the horned god

green seers

moonsingers

and of course the weirwood faces

[J. Stargaryen]

One interesting thing is that we now seem to have found two pairs of ancient (ie pre the Seven) Gods

The Storm God (associated with the Stormlands) and the Wind Godess that gave rise to the Durrendens

The Drowned God (associated with the Iron Islands) and the Wave Goddess associated with the Sisters

Other old Gods of which we have heard include

the horned god

green seers

moonsingers

and of course the weirwood faces

For clarity: the legend says that Durran's wife, Elenei, was the daughter of wind goddess and the sea god. - ACoK, Catelyn III

It's interesting that there was a sea god, Lady of the Waves, Lord of the Skies and a wind goddess. Almost like a male-female counterpart for the sea and air. According to Godric Borrell (ADwD, Davos I), the LotW and LotS made storms every time they mated. It makes sense that it was the same for the sea god and wind goddess. After all, they were the parents of Elenei, who is the mother of all the storm kings/lords in history. But why the gender reversal?

[Game Of Thrones]

For clarity: the legend says that Durran's wife, Elenei, was the daughter of wind goddess and the sea god. - ACoK, Catelyn III

It's interesting that there was a sea god, Lady of the Waves, Lord of the Skies and a wind goddess. Almost like a male-female counterpart for the sea and air. According to Godric Borrell (ADwD, Davos I), the LotW and LotS made storms every time they mated. It makes sense that it was the same for the sea god and wind goddess. After all, they were the parents of Elenei, who is the mother of all the storm kings/lords in history. But why the gender reversal?

Interesting.

Stormland: Wind goddess, sea god, rain god

Sisters (probably came from the Vale): Sea goddess, sky god

Ironmen (probably came from the Westerlands): Sea god, sky god

It's possible that originally there were a sea god and a sea goddes, and a sky god and a sky goddess.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

I have a belief that the CotF had a different faction, perhaps thos who sing the song of the sea. Perhaps the Iron Islands were shattered much before the arrival of the First Men during an inter-CotF conflict.

If there are "Those who sing the song of the sea," I am almost certain that they are the ones who saved patchface, and taught him prophecy. That would be why Mel says he is evil and appears in her fires.

Maybe these "Children" were moved into the sea by invaders, and they've been awaiting the opportunity for revenge.

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

Yes, the CotF can probably see the future, but I doubt that they can speak to those in the future. Remember, BR can't speak to Shiera or Bittersteel or Daeron.

BR can't. What says Bran can't? He seems to have done it twice already. Once with Jon in ACOK and once with Ned in ADWD/pre-AGOT. I think Bran can talk to the past/future, and I bet others could too. To me, BR is the problem, not the Weirnet.

[Game Of Thrones]

BR can't. What says Bran can't? He seems to have done it twice already. Once with Jon in ACOK and once with Ned in ADWD/pre-AGOT. I think Bran can talk to the past/future, and I bet others could too. To me, BR is the problem, not the Weirnet.

Well, I doubt that the CotF would regard BR so highly if he can't talk.

Also, BR can talk, only in the present.

He's talking to Stannis in TWOW

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

Well, I doubt that the CotF would regard BR so highly if he can't talk.

Also, BR can talk, only in the present.

He can talk in the present; Bran is talking in the past. And the COTF would regard a Greenseer well enough, I think, even if he couldn't speak through the trees...

[Game Of Thrones]

He can talk in the present; Bran is talking in the past. And the COTF would regard a Greenseer well enough, I think, even if he couldn't speak through the trees...

Bran just made tree sounds, right?

[Trogdor Targaryen]

Bran just made tree sounds, right?

"Theon"

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Some supporting evidence from Twoiaf:

The greatest of the priests was the towering prophet Galon Whitestaff, so-called for the tall carved staff he carried everywhere to smite the ungodly. (In some tales his staff was made of weirwood, in others from one of Nagga’s bones.)

(...)

The Grey King also taught men to weave nets and sails and carved the first longship from the hard pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree who fed on human flesh.

[The Reckoner]

Ha ha his name is Galon. Like Gallon.

[Luddagain]

Bran is probably the greatest greensear ever. He is still very young (10 years old) and he has successfully warged a human, communicated albeit with static to Theon, and Jon. Another years training and who knows what he can achieve.

[Richard7666]

Heh, I'd interpreted the Nagga passages as referring to Mosasaur (or some dinosaur) bones, mainly because of the throne shown in the picture on those pages.

That is the jaws of some massive beasty.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

I love this

The mythology and religions in the series fascinates me, and the Iron islands have the strangest so far (which only makes me more curious) I definitely think a lot of the islands were connected previously. After reading about all the oily stone in the World book I was wondering if Storm God/Drowned God/Nagga was a "game of telephone" type of twisted mythology based on something that happened between children and whoever made that oily black stone throne...but it was just something I was kicking around.

This is great though.

[Ser Skwisgaar]

Um. Whoa. Something I never considered here...

He made Nagga's "living fire" his thrall? Up until now I'd be reading this as a Prometheus-like metaphor. "The Grey King stole the secret of fire" or whatnot.

But if Naggs's ribs are really weirwood, is the "living fire" that he made his thrall a priest of Asshai? As in, a person 'made of flame' who was literally made a slave of the Grey King?

From this new reading, the Grey King seems less of a Ironborn badass, and more of a political/magical genius - someone who was able to harnass the element of Water (marrying or creating a pact with a Mermaid/Deep One/Squisher), enslave Fire (capture and enthrall a Priest of Asshai), to defeat Wind/Earth (Children of the Forest)

[Hrafntýr]

Um. Whoa. Something I never considered here...

He made Nagga's "living fire" his thrall? Up until now I'd be reading this as a Prometheus-like metaphor. "The Grey King stole the secret of fire" or whatnot.

But if Naggs's ribs are really weirwood, is the "living fire" that he made his thrall a priest of Asshai? As in, a person 'made of flame' who was literally made a slave of the Grey King?

From this new reading, the Grey King seems less of a Ironborn badass, and more of a political/magical genius - someone who was able to harnass the element of Water (marrying or creating a pact with a Mermaid/Deep One/Squisher), enslave Fire (capture and enthrall a Priest of Asshai), to defeat Wind/Earth (Children of the Forest)

Personally, I think he married the weirwood, i.e. was a greenseer. And I think the Children/greenseers know or knew how to direct firewyrms, that that's how they effected smashing the Arm of Dorne and the Hammer of the Waters. But that's just my crackpot!

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Catelyn's story of the building of Storm's End:
Durran Godsgrief wed Elenei, daughter of the sea god and the goddess of the wind.


Godric Borrell's story of the old religion on the Sisters:
"Storms were sacred on the Sisters before the Andals came. Our gods of old were the Lady of the Waves and the Lord of the Skies. They made storms every time they mated."

Ironborn religion:
the Drowned God vs the Storm God


source---------------sea deity---------------wind (storm) deity--------relationship

Storm's End----------male----------------------female------------------mates---

Three Sisters---------female---------------------male-------------------mates---

Iron Islands-----------male----------------------male------------------enemies--

These three religions definitely seem to be relics from the First Men's pre-Old Gods religion. It's interesting to see how they differ, or have been warped over time. The First Men Original Pantheon (FMOP hereafter) was probably an elemental pantheon. The only surviving pieces are on the periphery of Westeros, in marginal locales, so we don't get a full picture. That's why we only get Sea and Wind/Storm gods in the stories. All the other gods got buried by the new religion. Garth Greenhand sounds like a classic Fertility God, but those aspects of the original religion were absorbed by the Earth Singer's Old Gods. We really need to send an archeological expedition to the Disputed Lands with the hope of finding and excavating some temples of the proto- First Men.

The Three Sisters religion might be the closest thing to the original version, since they don't seem to have blended with a competitor, but we cant be sure. Borrell didn't spend a lot of time on the subject. The Storm's End story can be read as an allegory for the victory of the Old Gods religion over the FMOP.

The Iron Islands, on the other hand, see a victory by the FMOP, followed by an appropriation of the sacred relics/power of the defeated religion (a weirwood staff, the dead weirwoods used as a hall) by the victorious side. The High Septon has a weirwood staff too, IIRC. It's a dominance display, not a sign of fusion. The idea of the islands being broken by the CotF is interesting, and might very well be correct. The question would be whether it was a separate event, or a side effect of the other uses of the HotW. The Iron Islands religion also seems to be just as bi-theistic as the Red God's. Any force, magic, or religion that isn't the Drowned God gets rolled into his One Enemy - the Storm God. Or is simply regarded as evil and demonic. It fits the whole Us vs Them philosophy of the Ironborn perfectly. So the idea of the CotF somehow being merged in Ironborn myth with the enemy Storm God makes a lot of sense.

I prefer to consider Water and Sea as separate elements. The various sea stories have little in common with the Water powers of the Rhoynar. The symbols are even different - krakens vs giant turtles. That might come to be important once we remember that Catelyn claimed that the Tullys drew their power from the River Trident. Bran or the Blackfish might be able to pull off some water magic, now that magic is returning.

Now toss in the Reed's Oath. Earth and Water, Bronze and Iron, Ice and Fire. Toss out bronze and iron, because they represent man made things over nature, and are anti-magical, especially iron. (The Reeds are swearing by both magic and the mundane.) That gives us three opposing/complementary pairs of magic - Earth and Water, Sea and Air/Wind/Storm, Ice and Fire. Tied together by Life/Death/Blood.

[Mithras]

Pentos is the closest thing we can get to learn the remnants of FMOP.

Each new year, the prince must deflower two maidens, the maid of the sea and the maid of the fields. This ancient ritual— perhaps arising from the mysterious origins of pre-Valyrian Pentos—is meant to ensure the continued prosperity of Pentos on land and at sea. Yet, if there is famine or if a war is lost, the prince becomes not a ruler but a sacrifice ; his throat is slit so that the gods might be appeased . And then a new prince is chosen who might bring more fortune to the city.

Martin, George R.R.; Garcia, Elio; Antonsson, Linda (2014-10-28). The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) (Kindle Locations 7454-7457). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[TheNorthmen]

Obviously on to something as Maester Yandel writes in TWOIAF that there is evidence the CotF were at some point present on those islands but theres so little evidence they are unaware of what became of them.

The Ironborne twisting their own history and the CotF into a story of an evil god known as the Storm God would definitely erase any true history revolving around the presence of CotF.

[Monctonvike]

Great topic!!! and well put together, I know we are talking about the Iron Islands, but I see some similarities in the history of storms end. It almost seems although they are two different area's they seem to have had some type of issue potentially involving a storm God with some help from magic, and the children of the forest

Storm's End is the seat of House Baratheon along Shipbreaker Bay in the Stormlands. One of the strongest castles in the Seven Kingdoms, it was once the ancestral seat of the Storm Kings of House Durrandon extending back many thousands of years. The castle is said to be protected by spells woven into its very walls that prevent magic from affecting it or passing through it. It was also known as Durran's Defiance

Storm's End is surrounded by a massive outer curtain wall, one hundred feet high and forty feet thick on its thinnest side and nearly eighty feet thick on its seaward side. It is composed of a double course of stones with an inner core of sand and rubble. The wall is smooth and curving, the stones so well placed and so perfectly together that the wind can find no purchase. On the seaward side, there is a 150-foot drop below the wall into the sea.^[2]

The castle itself consists of one huge drum tower crowned with formidable battlements, so that from a distance enemies can see what appears to be a single huge, spiked fist thrusting towards the sky in defiance. The tower is so large that it comfortably contains the granary, barracks, armoury, feast hall and lord's chambers all at once.^[2] It is said that there are spells woven into the stonework.^[3] The seaward side of the castle stands upon a high white cliffs overlooking the sea, and there is a barred, watery passage through a cavern that leads beneath the castle.

The mighty fortress called Storm's End has stood for centuries, facing the terrible weather of Shipbreaker Bay with little wear to show for it. Legend claims that it was built by Durran, the first Storm King during the Dawn Age, who declared a war against the gods after they killed his family and guests, ruining his wedding to their daughter Elenei. It was said that he raised six each larger and more formidable until he raised Storm's End. Some believe this was because the children of the forest took a hand in its construction, using their magics in the raising the castle walls allowing it to resist the storms. Others believe that a young boy who grew up to be Bran the Builder advised Durran on its construction. The truth of the matter is unknown.^[2]

Archmaester Vyron in his Triumphs and Defeats speculates that the claim of the tale of Storm's End that the final form of the castle was the seventh shows a clear Andal inflience and suggests the possibility that the final form of the castle was achieved in Andal times.^[4