If Jon is heir to Winterfell..

[Wmarshal]

But are we sure that Jon even has to be released if there is a war situation and the whole North needs / wants him to lead the country / region instead of just commanding the garrison on the Wall? If he has to decide where and how to serve the realm better, what is more important, to stick to a large piece of ice or to do everything in his power to protect the people of the realm?

Protecting the realm is standing a facing the Others, not facing Ramsay. He becomes a oathbreaker if he tries to run.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Protecting the realm is standing a facing the Others, not facing Ramsay. He becomes a oathbreaker if he tries to run.

Kind of a grey area. If Ramsay is certain to come attack, well the realm is pretty much hosed because the NW has zero defenses facing the south. Much smarter for the FF, Queen's men, and NW watch to meet them elsewhere on their own terms. If he isn't certain to attack, well then yeah it's oathbreaking.

[Julia H.]

Protecting the realm is standing a facing the Others, not facing Ramsay. He becomes a oathbreaker if he tries to run.

Can't we imagine a scenario where he faces the Others as King-in-the-North, where the NW may not be enough to stop the Others, or where the North is threatened by both the Others and the Boltons? Well, for one, I can. I'm not talking of running, by the way, I'm not sure where you get that. I'm talking of Jon taking further responsibility on his shoulders, of taking on a job that needs to be done when no one else is there to do it. The black brothers serve the realm in many ways, and not all of them are on the Wall permanently. Yoren travels all about the realm, yet, he is not an oathbreaker because what he does is still NW business. If fighting for the country at another post is oathbreaking, so be it, but TBH, as long as Jon remains the shield the guards the realm, I think he is true to the essence of his vow and to his chosen vocation. If Jon remains true to the essence of his vow and does his best to save the realm from whatever danger it is threatened by, that is more valuable than just sticking to the words of his vow, and I will certainly regard him as a hero.

[Red Wedding Cake]

There is precedent for the offer to leave the Night's Watch with Maester Aemon. He refused, but regretted it. A king can indeed negotiate the release of a member of the Watch.

Jon has already left the Watch, pages before he was stabbed. Whether he would accept the kingship depends on what motivations he has. He certainly wanted to save fArya. It could all be meaningless since we haven't heard anything about Robb's will in quite some time and Jon could very well be dead.

[King of the Rock]

Jon's not the heir to anything. He surrendered all lands, titles, and inheritances when he joined the blue ball gang.

[RainGhost]

The two people who know about Robb's will and are free are Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover. They went to Greywater Watch. The big question I have is how much does Howland Reed know about his children's fates? What does Jojen dream before going to Winterfell? I think he must know that Jojen would see what was coming and would be able to get them out of it.

Bran and Rickon being alive negates Robb's will because he wrote it believing they were dead. It also removes the difficulty of getting Jon out of his vows. But even if Howland Reed suspects Bran and Rickon are alive, he doesn't know for sure and he doesn't know where they are. Unless they've been in contact with White Harbour. This is where the GNC comes in. Have the various factions in the north been able to communicate with each other? If so, perhaps the clansmen at the Wall are there to watch Jon.

But the problem with the GNC theory is that the mountain clans have joined Stannis, White Harbour has its own plans which we don't know the full extent of and we've heard nothing of GW at all. If they were coordinating, surely they would be together? It's possible that WH and GW forces have combined off-page, in which case they know of Rickon. Otherwise, I have no idea what GW has been planning. Either way, they've made no attempt to contact Jon. They could just be biding their time to get a clearer idea of the situation before making any big declarations.

[Ser Eric]

And so are the pages (altogether more than two whole pages of the book) that Martin spent on writing Robb's discussion with Catelyn about his intention to name an heir and the (separate) scene where the will is signed. I doubt that all this text is included in the novel just to be totally irrelevant, but we'll see.

I really don't get your point.

Robb also spent pages discussing about how to retake the North. That definitely turned out to be irrelevant. Two pages are nothing in comparison especially as the readers know that Robb still has living heirs.

[BlackStark]

There is precedent for the offer to leave the Night's Watch with Maester Aemon. He refused, but regretted it. A king can indeed negotiate the release of a member of the Watch.

Jon has already left the Watch, pages before he was stabbed. Whether he would accept the kingship depends on what motivations he has. He certainly wanted to save fArya. It could all be meaningless since we haven't heard anything about Robb's will in quite some time and Jon could very well be dead.

I thought Aemon was offered the kingship before he joined the Watch (but after he had become a Maester) and his decision to go to the Wall was to preclude him ever being used against his brother.

[Poppa Chase]

This is all irrelevant anyway, because Robb wrote Catelyn as his heir. It's the only thing that makes sense text wise and story wise. Jon is a bastard of the nights watch. He has no Tully blood. He eats and sleeps with murderers and rapists. Why would people call him lord of Winterfell?

Robb convinced Catelyn there was no other option and that is why it's a trap. She's young enough to remarry and have children. She's got tully blood and has been lady of winterfell for a decade and a half. She would step down in place of her children if the situation showed itself. She knows winterfell better than most others. It's the only option Robb had.

[Ser Eric]

I thought Aemon was offered the kingship before he joined the Watch (but after he had become a Maester) and his decision to go to the Wall was to preclude him ever being used against his brother.

Yep. Pointing out Aemon goes aganst the point he was trying to make.

The only precedent of anyone leaving the NW is in some age old SSM. The fact that it didn't make it to the books is enough evidence that it's not a very important detail and can be ignored. Robb doesn't seem to be aware of it either or even if he is it's not something he's counting on to release Jon from his vows.

[Universal Sword Donor]

This is all irrelevant anyway, because Robb wrote Catelyn as his heir. It's the only thing that makes sense text wise and story wise. Jon is a bastard of the nights watch. He has no Tully blood. He eats and sleeps with murderers and rapists. Why would people call him lord of Winterfell?

Robb convinced Catelyn there was no other option and that is why it's a trap. She's young enough to remarry and have children. She's got tully blood and has been lady of winterfell for a decade and a half. She would step down in place of her children if the situation showed itself. She knows winterfell better than most others. It's the only option Robb had.

Not sure if joking...

[Poppa Chase]

Not sure if joking...

I thought it was funny when I first read it, but I thought long and hard about it and it's smart. Any one of your banner man can marry Catelyn and you only make the north that much stronger.

It can't be Jon because there would have been no need to ask Catelyn her opinion on the matter if his mind was set. He wanted to trap her into his only option. Making his mom heir to his kingdom. She would have said no if he didn't give her the choice between Jon and her.

They don't know if Jon can be released from the watch either way, or if he will even do it. choosing any of the people she mentioned to him, would be iffy to the Northmen and not help with the river lords which are half his kingdom.

Choosing any of his banner man would be a sleight to the rest of them. He disinherited Sansa. Arya and his brothers are dead. He needs someone and that person is Catelyn.

Like I said, in the event one of her kids shows up, she will make them king or queen. No one else would do that. Now I know Robb isn't banking on that part.

And let's look at the situation at hand. Robb is dying, and he looks at his mother just before death and calls her name.

Now who is back? Who has Robb's crown? Who is avenging him?

The queen in the north.

[Robb_Warged]

Robb Stark was the ultimate bro. He named Jon his heir as KITN. He loved Jon growing up. And he loved and trusted Theon. Sorry this thread just reminded me how alpha male Robb was

[Universal Sword Donor]

I thought it was funny when I first read it, but I thought long and hard about it and it's smart. Any one of your banner man can marry Catelyn and you only make the north that much stronger.

It can't be Jon because there would have been no need to ask Catelyn her opinion on the matter if his mind was set. He wanted to trap her into his only option. Making his mom heir to his kingdom. She would have said no if he didn't give her the choice between Jon and her.

They don't know if Jon can be released from the watch either way, or if he will even do it. choosing any of the people she mentioned to him, would be iffy to the Northmen and not help with the river lords which are half his kingdom.

Choosing any of his banner man would be a sleight to the rest of them. He disinherited Sansa. Arya and his brothers are dead. He needs someone and that person is Catelyn.

Like I said, in the event one of her kids shows up, she will make them king or queen. No one else would do that. Now I know Robb isn't banking on that part.

And let's look at the situation at hand. Robb is dying, and he looks at his mother just before death and calls her name.

Now who is back? Who has Robb's crown? Who is avenging him?

The queen in the north.

I think you really need to re-read that chapter.

[Poppa Chase]

I think you really need to re-read that chapter.

Which one? The will?

[Darksnider05]

Catelyn would have no claim on the North even less than Jon good lord.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Which one? The will?

Whichever Catelyn chapter in ASoS has that conversation in it.

[Poppa Chase]

Catelyn would have no claim on the North even less than Jon good lord.

The North will go to whoever is strongest, just like any other place.

But if Catelyn is Robb's heir than her claim is just that. She has a much better claim than Jon considering she is a true born daughter of the liege lord in the river lands. And the 16 year lady of Winterfell. Jon is a bastard boy in the nights watch who has no river blood.

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

The North will go to whoever is strongest, just like any other place.

But if Catelyn is Robb's heir than her claim is just that. She has a much better claim than Jon considering she is a true born daughter of the liege lord in the river lands. And the 16 year lady of Winterfell. Jon is a bastard boy in the nights watch who has no river blood.

And Catelyn is riverland girl with no Stark blood.

[Poppa Chase]

Whichever Catelyn chapter in ASoS has that conversation in it.

Yep. Read it numerous times for this reason. Explain to me how it seems like it's Jon?

He brings up Jon as heir to her. She says no. He says, but he is stark and knows winterfell. She says it doesn't matter. She then offers some vale lords who have stark blood. He says but they're not stark and they don't know winterfell. She says he doesn't any other choices. Then he has his lords sign the fake papers that he plans on sending to howland reed. Catelyn thinks of how Robb trapped her. How did he trap her if he named Jon? He didn't. He named her because she fits those criteria. He also tried not to have her come to the twins if you remember. He tried to send her to seagard but she refused.

If you can show me one iota of evidence proving it to be Jon then please do so. That doesn't involve the app or wiki.