The Bastard Daughter Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Varys and Roose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think cases could probably be made for a number of people, but I'll say Jaime. One or two things go differently and he could have been one of the most beloved and respected knights in Westeros. He has been hated and mocked for almost twenty years for perhaps the most heroic thing he has ever done, something he did while he was a teenager and basically hostage. Fast forward to the last three years, and he does perhaps the most evil thing he has ever done (trying to kill Bran), which nobody knows about. And it seems each is only really known by one person (Brienne knows why Jaime really did what he did to Aerys, Cersei knows what he did and why to Bran). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I too think that Dany has the potential to be the greatest villain in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Second To Last Dragon Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Theon & Jaime if they count. Varys if not.its all matter of perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It depends, I'd say people like Theon, Jaime, Arya, Tyrion, Dany, Stannis, or Bloodraven, but they're probably more anti-heroes than villains. If we're talking outright villains, probably Tywin or Mel.GRRM might think Cersei, Littlefinger, or Roose are complex enough, but not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I would say Daenerys. Just like some of the worst villains in history she has deluded herself into think she is somehow helping people or making things better when in reality she is just a walking (or flying) disaster. I do think I am about to like her character a lot more in the upcoming books though. In her waking fever dreams there was that line, "dragons don't plant trees" which leads me to hope she will drop the benevolent mask of BS and just get her fire and blood on. I am surprised so many people said Varys. I don't see Varys as even a little villainous, only an agent of change and I truly believe him when he says he is working for the good of the realm. He tried to help Ned and he is actively working to get rid of the Lanisters which in my book make him at least neutral. I can't take Varys' claims to be working for the good of the realm, or the idea that he is a Targ loyalist, seriously, as he seems to have worked to destabilize what had been a relatively stable situation into a situation where there have been at least three notable wars in less than twenty years, including two all out, Westeros-wide wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the storm king returns Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It's a toss up between Tywin Lannister and the HOUND, I always hated Tywin untill the interaction between HIM AND arya on the show at harrenhal, I kno this didn't happen in the books but it still made me think maybe he isn't a complete dick and he commits the most ruthless acts of violence only because he believes it's for the best of his house. The Hound because he commits evil acts because he is ordered to not for pleasure like his brother, and you can tell Mycka death truly effected him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I would say Daenerys. Just like some of the worst villains in history she has deluded herself into think she is somehow helping people or making things better when in reality she is just a walking (or flying) disaster. I do think I am about to like her character a lot more in the upcoming books though. In her waking fever dreams there was that line, "dragons don't plant trees" which leads me to hope she will drop the benevolent mask of BS and just get her fire and blood on. I am surprised so many people said Varys. I don't see Varys as even a little villainous, only an agent of change and I truly believe him when he says he is working for the good of the realm. He tried to help Ned and he is actively working to get rid of the Lanisters which in my book make him at least neutral. But she is helping people, given the thousands who follow her. And although right now the situation is in flux, the abolition of slavery will be for the better. I can't take Varys' claims to be working for the good of the realm, or the idea that he is a Targ loyalist, seriously, as he seems to have worked to destabilize what had been a relatively stable situation into a situation where there have been at least three notable wars in less than twenty years, including two all out, Westeros-wide wars. Especially given his actions prior to Robert's Rebellion where he seemed to be feeding Aerys paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 But she is helping people, given the thousands who follow her. And although right now the situation is in flux, the abolition of slavery will be for the better. Unless she fails. Then it will have all been for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Unless she fails. Then it will have all been for nothing. For nothing? I wouldn't say that the freed men and women would say it was for nothing. Also, it seems pretty clear that Dany will succeed, it's not going to be pretty, but she'll succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 For nothing? I wouldn't say that the freed men and women would say it was for nothing. Also, it seems pretty clear that Dany will succeed, it's not going to be pretty, but she'll succeed. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 We'll see. Argument of the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I'll say Varys even thought we have villainous POVs but I just can't name Cersei as complex and Theon is not a villain anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Argument of the year! It wasn't meant as an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Tywin for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damp Hair - The Prophet Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Theon is the most complex character in the story (though I personally don't view him as a villian.Also, remember, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.lhazarrrn & Yunkish & Astapori & Harpyish Meerenese prob think of Dany as a villian.Bowen Marsh & Slynt & some wildlings prob thought of Jon as a villian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Cersei.In FFC her behaviour was explained (even though I disagree with her way of thinkng).She is more complex than an evil woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two and a Halfhand Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 As you all said,Twyin is a superb villain and character,and is Roose.I also agree with those who see Daenerys as a complex villain in the making.But one of the best marks for a villain is to have a good reason and dont be "for the evilz".So for me a very complex villain is Bloodraven,a favorite "Big Bad Guy" choice if we ever get one.Bloodraven is a perfect mix between Varys "high intelligent spymaster",Tyrion"disliked by people for his appearance and blamed for problems he tries to solve" and Jon "bastard with magical blood who join the Night's Watch and becomes LC"Many people think that he is not a villain and is not leading Bran to darkness,but it makes more sense that he is,I think he has all the right reasons to take revenge on the kingdom who despised and betrayed him,and the more he convinces Bran that mankind is a plague on the earth,killing the Children,Giants and animals the betterHonorable mention to Mance too,we couldnt ask for a better villain in the Wall storyline,with the scarf story,the desertion and everything else about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhoynar Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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