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Who is the most complex villain?


larastone

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I think cases could probably be made for a number of people, but I'll say Jaime. One or two things go differently and he could have been one of the most beloved and respected knights in Westeros. He has been hated and mocked for almost twenty years for perhaps the most heroic thing he has ever done, something he did while he was a teenager and basically hostage. Fast forward to the last three years, and he does perhaps the most evil thing he has ever done (trying to kill Bran), which nobody knows about. And it seems each is only really known by one person (Brienne knows why Jaime really did what he did to Aerys, Cersei knows what he did and why to Bran).


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It depends, I'd say people like Theon, Jaime, Arya, Tyrion, Dany, Stannis, or Bloodraven, but they're probably more anti-heroes than villains. If we're talking outright villains, probably Tywin or Mel.

GRRM might think Cersei, Littlefinger, or Roose are complex enough, but not for me.

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I would say Daenerys. Just like some of the worst villains in history she has deluded herself into think she is somehow helping people or making things better when in reality she is just a walking (or flying) disaster. I do think I am about to like her character a lot more in the upcoming books though. In her waking fever dreams there was that line, "dragons don't plant trees" which leads me to hope she will drop the benevolent mask of BS and just get her fire and blood on.

I am surprised so many people said Varys. I don't see Varys as even a little villainous, only an agent of change and I truly believe him when he says he is working for the good of the realm. He tried to help Ned and he is actively working to get rid of the Lanisters which in my book make him at least neutral.

I can't take Varys' claims to be working for the good of the realm, or the idea that he is a Targ loyalist, seriously, as he seems to have worked to destabilize what had been a relatively stable situation into a situation where there have been at least three notable wars in less than twenty years, including two all out, Westeros-wide wars.

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It's a toss up between Tywin Lannister and the HOUND, I always hated Tywin untill the interaction between HIM AND arya on the show at harrenhal, I kno this didn't happen in the books but it still made me think maybe he isn't a complete dick and he commits the most ruthless acts of violence only because he believes it's for the best of his house. The Hound because he commits evil acts because he is ordered to not for pleasure like his brother, and you can tell Mycka death truly effected him.

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I would say Daenerys. Just like some of the worst villains in history she has deluded herself into think she is somehow helping people or making things better when in reality she is just a walking (or flying) disaster. I do think I am about to like her character a lot more in the upcoming books though. In her waking fever dreams there was that line, "dragons don't plant trees" which leads me to hope she will drop the benevolent mask of BS and just get her fire and blood on.

I am surprised so many people said Varys. I don't see Varys as even a little villainous, only an agent of change and I truly believe him when he says he is working for the good of the realm. He tried to help Ned and he is actively working to get rid of the Lanisters which in my book make him at least neutral.

But she is helping people, given the thousands who follow her. And although right now the situation is in flux, the abolition of slavery will be for the better.

I can't take Varys' claims to be working for the good of the realm, or the idea that he is a Targ loyalist, seriously, as he seems to have worked to destabilize what had been a relatively stable situation into a situation where there have been at least three notable wars in less than twenty years, including two all out, Westeros-wide wars.

Especially given his actions prior to Robert's Rebellion where he seemed to be feeding Aerys paranoia.

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Unless she fails. Then it will have all been for nothing.

For nothing? I wouldn't say that the freed men and women would say it was for nothing. Also, it seems pretty clear that Dany will succeed, it's not going to be pretty, but she'll succeed.

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Theon is the most complex character in the story (though I personally don't view him as a villian.

Also, remember, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

lhazarrrn & Yunkish & Astapori & Harpyish Meerenese prob think of Dany as a villian.

Bowen Marsh & Slynt & some wildlings prob thought of Jon as a villian.

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As you all said,Twyin is a superb villain and character,and is Roose.I also agree with those who see Daenerys as a complex villain in the making.But one of the best marks for a villain is to have a good reason and dont be "for the evilz".So for me a very complex villain is Bloodraven,a favorite "Big Bad Guy" choice if we ever get one.

Bloodraven is a perfect mix between Varys "high intelligent spymaster",Tyrion"disliked by people for his appearance and blamed for problems he tries to solve" and Jon "bastard with magical blood who join the Night's Watch and becomes LC"

Many people think that he is not a villain and is not leading Bran to darkness,but it makes more sense that he is,I think he has all the right reasons to take revenge on the kingdom who despised and betrayed him,and the more he convinces Bran that mankind is a plague on the earth,killing the Children,Giants and animals the better

Honorable mention to Mance too,we couldnt ask for a better villain in the Wall storyline,with the scarf story,the desertion and everything else about him

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