midi Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 All the changes will please the morons who didn't like the best two books in the series (D&D included apparently). The show is a steaming pile of missed opportunities... and shit, lots of shit. ADWD and AFFC are the lowest rated of the five books by critics and most of the sites that allow user ratings for books (e.g goodreads). A Storm of Swords is by far the most critically acclaimed and highest rated book in the series. It's impossible to do those two books as they are on the show, if not for all of the world expansion in them, then at the very least for the format they are in. YOU CAN'T cut out characters like Tyrion and Dany from the next season like you would have to if you faithfully followed AFFC next season. That would cause a huge fan uproar and just flush the season down the shitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Watchersonthewall just revealed that the Ironborn subplot has been dropped from season 5 and while some of you might say that it could still happen in season 6 I am not of that opinion. To clarify, I got bored halway through book 4 whilst reading it and that's never a good sign. Same with book 5. I definitely like those 2 books the least because I can take a step backwards and recognize that on their own, these books are overlong, drawn-out and often written in prose that I didn't like.There's a lot of stuff happening but that's just it: it's stuff. Sometimes (but definitely not mostly) vaguely interesting stuff but the plot slowed down too much for me and most of it is window dressing in my opinion because until I read that any of these things amount to something great I'm going to say that these books were self-indulgent to tge point of turning me off for a couple of weeks. The show has already more plotlines and characters than it can handle so this seems like a sensible decision to me if they want to make the show as concise as possible. I predicted this months ago because those two subplots take up a lot of space and you can't devote equal time to both. Best choose one and lose the other because the viewers don't know any of those characters and with just 3 seasons left to go (including season 5) there's not enough time to wrap up the story for the already existing characters whilst having to introduce 20 new ones. I applaud them for reognizing their limitations because lets face it if they had done both subplots people would have complained about the rushed and subpar execution of it anyway. Also, it's time that the show became its own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsGreyjoy Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Isn't it a bit soon to say that the Ironborn plot is "just stuff" when we don't yet know how the story ends? I'm sorry it bored you, but there are things that bored me (and others) that certainly made it onto the show for whatever reason. I don't understand how that story line is somehow "self indulgent". For who? GRRM? Anyway, I do agree that the show has become it's own thing that that the story and characters have to be condensed a bit. I agree with your conclusion, just not how you got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I say the ironborn subplot is stuff because so far no payoff has happened for it and i don't know how awesome the payoff will be in book 6 and until I know, I say it's excessive worldbuilding. The best thing that could happen is that the Dusky Woman reveals herself to be Euron in disguise. Now THAT'S a twist and it humiliates Victarion even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I too do not care for the Ironborn chapters, but I see their significance...Ships. Ships. Ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I consider rather unfair opinions like "it's good they cut it because it was boring". Book 4 and 5 weren't boring for many people who also have the right to have opinions and not everybody believes the Kingsmoot, Aegon or the Riverlands plot are bad. I personally loved all of Jaime's journey in the Riverlands and im sure I'm not the only one. It's definitely much better than Jaime the overprotective daddy. And while I didn't like the Kingsmoot as many others, I found it entertaining. Considering that Willas and Garlan might play important roles in the next books, then we already know HBO has fucked up some decisions. It's not the same as saying that the show are completely ruined because they aren't present, but book readers might eventually realise that it was shameful to have missed good scenes of them both while we had instead gratuitous tits and rapes. I was very excited to seen an eventual taking of Storm's End but we don't because whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I consider rather unfair opinions like "it's good they cut it because it was boring". Book 4 and 5 weren't boring for many people who also have the right to have opinions and not everybody believes the Kingsmoot, Aegon or the Riverlands plot are bad. I personally loved all of Jaime's journey in the Riverlands and im sure I'm not the only one. It's definitely much better than Jaime the overprotective daddy. And while I didn't like the Kingsmoot as many others, I found it entertaining. Considering that Willas and Garlan might play important roles in the next books, then we already know HBO has fucked up some decisions. It's not the same as saying that the show are completely ruined because they aren't present, but book readers might eventually realise that it was shameful to have missed good scenes of them both while we had instead gratuitous tits and rapes. I was very excited to seen an eventual taking of Storm's End but we don't because whatever. What roles are Willas and Garlan playing in the next books? Defending the Reach from the Ironborn? If that happens in the show, Loras can ride west and be injured if needed. It doesn't look like the Iron Throne has any naval strength so there might be no siege of Dragonstone anyway. Besides, even if the Ironborn go to Mereen (and Dany has her own fleet there, so they may not) they can alter Euron's plan to avoid the attack on the Reach. GRRM had to do it in the books because he made the Reach too powerful in order for them to be able to prop Renly and the Lannisters. But the Tyrell's military might isn't stated in the show. So any Ironborn war plan might make more sense than in the books: fetch Daenerys and the dragons first and then attack in full force instead of challenging the Redwyne Fleet while the Iron Fleet is away like in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 How have they fucked up if they're going to be doing their own thing in the future anyway? Yeah, it's not going to be a really faithful adaptation other than in spirit of the books but that's all I really asked for because I'm open to creative ideas and departures from the source material and at least now they are genuinely veering away from the preestablished narrative. To a certain extent that makes it more exciting because at some point i won't know where it's going and I will be optimistic here and say that this is a god thing. The narrative of the books is still the same as it always was; the only thing that changes is the perception of the narrative by non-readers but why should we let that diminish our enjoyment of the books anyway? Those people can call themselves fans of the world too, it's just a different version of the world that we came to know but with mostly the same truths behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HodoringHodor Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yeah, I don't get the talking about the showrunners fucking up either. We have no idea what Willas and Garlan are going to do and how relevant they will be. On the other hand the showrunners do know that since they've gone over the future events with GRRM pretty extensively. Not every change every bookreader didin't want to happen means that the showrunners fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Remember that strange seeming birthday cake for Emilia Clarke? Well apparently sources have her birthday wrong! http://www.toofab.com/2014/10/25/emilia-clarke-game-of-thrones-birthday-photos/ Apparently her birthday is not in May, when is it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yesterday or the day before, I guess. I wonder why it was listed wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 this forum is way too dramatic about Willas and Garlan being cut, Olenna could just play whatever role they're supposed to play in future books and Loras could as well. D&D made a good choice by not casting Willas and Garlan imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yesterday or the day before, I guess. I wonder why it was listed wrong. By the by , that really elegant white gown, think Drogon will burn it off her? Else how she gonna ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Maybe partially. If he burned it off fully they'd have another WoS type of naked-lead-actress-in-front-of-tons-of-extras scenario on their hands, which from a production standpoint they might avoid this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yesterday or the day before, I guess. I wonder why it was listed wrong. One site now says her birthday is 22nd of October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Maybe partially. If he burned it off fully they'd have another WoS type of naked-lead-actress-in-front-of-tons-of-extras scenario on their hands, which from a production standpoint they might avoid this time around. That's what I am expecting. Tho that will be done on a VFX sound stage. By next year I expect her to be in Dothraki gear and Khaleesi of the Khalesis of the Great Grass Sea. Or maybe Khaleesi of all the Dothraki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midi Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 That's what I am expecting. Tho that will be done on a VFX sound stage.By next year I expect her to be in Dothraki gear and Khaleesi of the Khalesis of the Great Grass Sea.Or maybe Khaleesi of all the Dothraki. I hope they skip the whole Dothraki plot... I hate those guys. I'd rather see her do something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneti Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 this forum is way too dramatic about Willas and Garlan being cut, Olenna could just play whatever role they're supposed to play in future books and Loras could as well. D&D made a good choice by not casting Willas and Garlan imo. Agreed. I think it's all based on that one interview where GRRM said that he was upset about the show cutting Garlan and Willas because they are 'important' later. Then again, he said the same about Mago, aka Jerk Jock Blood Rider 2 who opposes Drogo and Emilia and got his tongue ripped out. Yeah, he might return later and Dany may interact with him. Garlan and Willas may get to do some big stuff in the books later. But are they singularly qualified for it (i. e. are they the only ones who could possibly do it)? I doubt it. And when you have a show like GoT where you have to introduce 15 main characters within the first episode to make any sense of anything that happens, anybody who is not singularly qualified for something has a good chance of getting axed. For good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I consider rather unfair opinions like "it's good they cut it because it was boring". Book 4 and 5 weren't boring for many people who also have the right to have opinions and not everybody believes the Kingsmoot, Aegon or the Riverlands plot are bad. I personally loved all of Jaime's journey in the Riverlands and im sure I'm not the only one. It's definitely much better than Jaime the overprotective daddy. And while I didn't like the Kingsmoot as many others, I found it entertaining. Considering that Willas and Garlan might play important roles in the next books, then we already know HBO has fucked up some decisions. It's not the same as saying that the show are completely ruined because they aren't present, but book readers might eventually realise that it was shameful to have missed good scenes of them both while we had instead gratuitous tits and rapes. I was very excited to seen an eventual taking of Storm's End but we don't because whatever. I have recently re-read Books 4 & 5 and the only bits that could be described as boring IMO are some of the early Brienne and Sam's chapters and some of Tyrion's travelogue and the stagnation in Merreen. I really liked all of Jamie's chapters and the reservation with the Ironborn and Aegon is more to do with whether we needed those chapters not whether they were boring. There is allot of great stuff in those books, but, from a plot perspective most established characters only have one season worth of material so drastic cuts were required. From the news we have so far it appears they have made those cuts in the "right" way be excising entirely plotlines not considered relevant, rather than trying to cram everything in and short-changing the core characters. The material that appears to have been excised, whether that be Brienne's adventures, the Ironborn, Quentyn, Tyrion with young griff or Jamie in the riverlands, is of variable quality what appears undisputed however is that as far as we know at present they are all side stories rather than being integral to the main plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtherSnow Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 When some put forward the idea of cramming a pair of books into one season, anyone saying otherwise were thought of as fools. Now it's taking shape that S06 will contain plots some expected in S05.You can't shove all your eggs in one basket. Chickens do not overfill nests, that ought to serve as a prompt to those wondering why eggs are falling out of baskets, smashing to smithereens.It is extremely foolish to risk on expecting the final books to arrive in time to save embarrassment when the show has another couple of seasons to follow the current one in production. As we already know, there are huge impact events to come in the next book, and, therefore in the show. Certain characters and their actions have serious implications on where the whole book & show series is moving. This is not taking into account what's being built up as the greatest events to affect each and every character in each and every location. Perhaps another teaser is on its way for that. Maybe we're in for a flashback to cover The Doom? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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