The Riverlands Web V.2

[Booknerd2]

Thought of one more thing, booknerd2, the author had Arya meet Sam...

Jon's best friend, Sam, and Bond, James Bond, went to the Citadel after leaving Arya...

Pate bit a gold coin, now "Pate" has an iron key.

Yeah. Sam and Jaqen, have now met, and both have met/know Arya, and Jon is her family,and very important to her story, especially with Needle. Sam and Arya are very close to Jon, and they have a run-in. But I always wished more come to it in the book with those two.

Arya and "Pate" and running bits with keys.

All the run-ins with people overlapping, I always wondered, if they would come in handy down the road at just the opportune time.

How does this play out? Yeah, I had to put the box due to Arya and keys from 6. The boxes ARE a pain.

[ARYa_Nym]

Jaqen has a key but it's unrelated. He's trying to get access to that book on the The Death of Dragons. The FM will likely later on have a contract against them.

The last known copy of The Death of Dragons is supposedly hidden away in a locked vault below the Citadel. The tome is said to record the deaths of the last dragons of House Targaryen during the reign of King Aegon Dragonbane and possibly the cause of the deaths.^%5B1%5D

GRRM said in a Spanish interview that the FM haven't had a dragon contract yet.

The mention of keyholders is a clue as to what Arya's deals with.

[Le Cygne]

Yeah. Sam and Jaqen, have now met, and both have met/know Arya, and Jon is her family,and very important to her story, especially with Needle. Sam and Arya are very close to Jon, and they have a run-in. But I always wished more come to it in the book with those two.

Arya and "Pate" and running bits with keys.

All the run-ins with people overlapping, I always wondered, if they would come in handy down the road at just the opportune time.

More quotes:

Dareon, deserted her bro, it's too late, just so:

“What happened to your brother?” Cat asked. “The fat one. Did he ever find a ship to Oldtown? He said he was supposed to sail on the Lady Ushanora.”

“We all were. Lord Snow’s command. I told Sam, leave the old man, but the fat fool would not listen.” The last light of the setting sun shone in his hair. “Well, it’s too late now.”

“Just so,” said Cat as they stepped into the gloom of a twisty little alley.

Sam the Slayer, her bro's best friend, meets "Jaqen":

He turned to the pasty-faced novice. “Find Slayer a dry cell. He’ll sleep here, and help you tend the ravens...”

“There’s an empty sleeping cell under mine in the west tower, with steps that lead right up to Walgrave’s chambers,” said the pasty-faced youth. “If you don’t mind the ravens quorking, there’s a good view of the Honeywine. Will that serve?...”

“My thanks.” There was something about the pale, soft youth that he misliked, but he did not want to seem discourteous, so he added, “My name’s not Slayer, truly. I’m Sam. Samwell Tarly.”

“I’m Pate,” the other said, “like the pig boy.”

[Booknerd2]

More quotes:

Dareon, deserted her bro, it's too late, just so:

Sam the Slayer, her bro's best friend, meets "Jaqen":

And I have to wonder. She meets Sam, Jon's greatest friend and confidante. She meets Dareon, a brother, Lord Commander Snow, her brother is mentioned. Raff and Swyft ( reminder of lions and westeros too) appear. It triggers remembering Lommy and the Pack and it shows, how she feels about them. Cares for them. It is her job as Pack Leader to avenge him.

She could have walked away, do nothing, and focus her energy on her FM training and not making a mess for herself.

She could have killed Raff, if not for Lommy, and just do it for his past slights to her, and never mention anything about Lommy, the carrying, the spear, leg,etc.

That didn't happen. She made it very personal, about someone else, and at great personal risk.

Totally her past is finding her. People are showing up: friends and foes, dreams and connections with Big Nyms.

And I laugh too, but I miss the Jaqen third person speak as he is mimicking Pate.

[Le Cygne]

And I have to wonder. She meets Sam, Jon's greatest friend and confidante. She meets Dareon, a brother, Lord Commander Snow, her brother is mentioned.

Ser Piggy is now Sam the Slayer... Jaqen is now "like the pig boy"... Sam "mislikes" him...

Arya killed Dareon, who deserted Jon... Arya defended Sam and knows he's following Jon's orders...

I also like this line from the above, "What happened to your brother?" Arya asks.... The subtext, what happened to her brother, Jon...

[ARYa_Nym]

Actually a theory that was proposed in the Mercy threads:

is that she was meant to kill someone for the FM and Raff being there allowed her to kill him specifically. She says that would make trouble for the Sealord and Harys Swift. It's possible that they or someone wants to push Braavos into conflict. There's brewing conflict in the Free Cities anyways. The kill was actually very sloppy. Blood everywhere. But it's possible that it was supposed to be set up that way. Remember she says in the beginning tonight I'll be raped and murdered. That doesn't have to only refer to the play. Mercy could have been "murdered" that night. She left a trail.

If true Arya might not get in trouble for her actions which is good which as I said lessons the chances they'll hunt her and kill her although they might want to do that anyways if she ups and leaves.

She didn't consider Lommy her pack though. In ACoK she still thought of her family as her pack. Then after he's dead she starts to shift it to her friends being her pack as well as her family. ETA: Although she does include Lommy in the AFFC mention but still her pack is her family.

She had no pack though. They had killed her pack, Ser Illyn and Ser Meryn and the queen, and when she tried to make a new one all of them ran off, Hot Pie and Gendry and Yoren and Lommy Greenhands, even Harwin, who had been her father's man.

Then when in her mind they abandon her she thinks they were never really her pack. She hasn't thought about them since AFFC.

She spares no thought for them in that chapter.

[Booknerd2]

That is great though. I like that. Sam, something inside him, he got a bad vibe off "Pate". He knew something is not right there.

[Le Cygne]

That is great though. I like that. Sam, something inside him, he got a bad vibe off "Pate". He knew something is not right there.

Arya and Sam vs. Jaqen, smackdown at the Citadel.

What has she learned from the FM, to add to her arsenal... Because I think he's telling us she's about ready to roll.

[ARYa_Nym]

Sam might be dead soon. Jon talked about seeing Sam with snow melting in his hair in their last scene which is exactly how he described Robb when they last saw each other and there are theories about Euron coming to sack Oldtown. Jaqen might be gone before that though since he's there for the book.

ETA: IIRC there were more legit reasons to think that Sam might die but they're somewhere in the foreshadowing or the Euron attacking Oldtown thread.

The new book strengthened it I think.

An Ironborn king sacks Oldtown in it.

A Greyjoy is definitely in her future although I don't know which or if it's both Victarion and Euron but she paired it with dragons so I'm assuming she meets them when they're with Dany so somewhere else. Euron is bad news for her though but the text indicated that the kraken would be a problem for her.

[Booknerd2]

Now I have to wonder…

With the whole Raff thing, what she has learned, and her assessment of what she has.

Was she sloppy? Or… is that exuding confidence in her skills and what she has learned from FM? She feels she can handle anything, and she can.

It reminded me of the nonchalance of Jaqen. He was an example, I think, of someone that has been an FM for some time. And probably, just a naturally good one too….but who knows how long, his background, and what his training was besides.

He was always like: Ok, give a man a name already….(he sighs in boredom) I got this. You know, like a breezy attitude towards it all.

And it is done, and he shows up, and it is a very blasé, whatever vibe, the next time she sees him. Like he took his dog to the groomer and came back. No big deal.

Is Arya there yet. Where he is? Close? Or it comes more down to personality?

Should she have walked Raff down the stairs at least. The how am I going to take out a body, get it outside, and to the canal and

that body is there until after I am done with the play for the night.

I was amazed. She could be seen so easily.

She has the same Jaqen attitude. The “whatever”…

It will make trouble for the sealord and her co-workers, she notes.

She thinks only of their troubles and not her own. It did make me wonder, that she won’t be around long, to worry about her own fallout. And maybe that is why she thinks that, she knows…

To not think once about it either. She is really that not worried about the fallout for herself….so interesting.

[ARYa_Nym]

It is sloppy.

First of all she let the other guard see her with Raff so if Raff goes missing she would be the last person he was seen with.

She left blood everywhere at HER place.

She practically points the clues. FM training is to make it look like an accident and not an obvious murder. This is the opposite of that. However, it's highly possible that she was told to do just that on a special assignment because whoever it is wants Braavos to join the conflict.

She doesn't think about the fallout for herself possibly because there won't be any and she did what she was told to do. Kill one of the Lannister retinue. They don't have to know that she knew the target.

ETA: Here's a good comment in one of the threads:

Jack's Smirking Revenge, on 03 Jun 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

They found out about Dareon because Arya showed up with his boots and told the Kindly Man that she killed him.

It was theorized what the "rape and murder" Mercy was referring to throughout the chapter could mean. Obviously Mercy was to be "raped" on stage, but the circumstances in which both Raff and Mercy would disappear would lead the authorities to believe that Raff murdered Mercy. They'll find her apartment, there will be blood everywhere and both Raff and Mercy would be gone. It's more likely that Raff would kill Mercy rather than vice versa. Thus Mercy was "raped and murdered" that night.

[Le Cygne]

She thinks only of their troubles and not her own. It did make me wonder, that she won’t be around long, to worry about her own fallout. And maybe that is why she thinks that, she knows…

That's kind of sad, but it also speaks well of her.

[Booknerd2]

That's kind of sad, but it also speaks well of her.

Not death…meaning, Arya is high-tailing it out of there and away from them maybe.

[Le Cygne]

Not death…meaning, Arya is high-tailing it out of there and away from them maybe.

I was just adding, this is a dangerous game she's playing. She's very brave! And very loyal.

Also this is hilarious, all she cares about is avenging LOMMY!

This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt. She would think about that later, though.

[ARYa_Nym]

She may be but I don't think she is yet.

We mention her list but there's Dunsen who may go to her.

That chapter pointed to the Iron Bank.

She has to get her face back.

We don't know when he wants to cut off her training. Right now she doesn't have any magical disguising abilities since she hasn't learned them yet.

Then I think even if she leaves Braavos I don't see her going to Westeros directly but to the other Free Cities. She was told to learn Pentoshi. Why have her learn that for no reason? She was also told to learn Lyseni. There's a web there which includes Gendry's own brother. Although I don't find the people there as relevant so I'm not sold on that place. It depends if Dany and them decide to stop there. Pentos is more likely for Essos PoVs to meet up though. Dany mentioned scrawny cats over Illyrio's wall. If Illyrio stays there her convo where she heard him wanting Ned dead can come full circle. This would be a blow to the Blackfyres.

ETA: & as for pissing them off and leaving and being calm about it she wouldn't be very smart if that were so or at least it would be stupid of her. I read an SSM that they have lasted for thousands of years. This is an organization of killers. She doesn't know how many there are or the chains of their command. Not knowing what your potential enemy is capable of could get you killed if you provoke them. See Robb and his shenanigans with the Freys and Lannisters.

Oh, and as for going to see people in the Riverlands that Jaqen already knew she was friendly with and it's not like they've been quiet about looking for her or her family members if the FM have a problem they would know exactly where to go to get to her. They've lasted for so long yet somehow little info is known about them. It seems they keep a tight lid on things.

[Booknerd2]

Post Question #8: Jaime Lannister is going to have a really bad day…a really, friggin’ bad day.

What a difference a day makes, or Jaime causes me tons of stress.

Kingslayer of the KG, Lannister…this guy has many titles. He is known as many things, known for many actions too. But this guy has so many problems….and a lot stemming from both his past and fairly recent present actions.

I thought about him. If I was him, why even get out of bed in the morning?

Aggravation, that man has nothing but aggravation coming his way.

He is like a character in an 8-bit video game. He is going to have 50 million things to jump over, dodge, find, slay, etc. I get nauseous even thinking about it, you barely see me talk about him or go on threads for him. I can’t hack it. I can’t bring myself to wade through the swamp mess of his life. It is just too much stress. But he is a Riverlands Webber, so I made myself face the inevitable.

It is too much. How do you even move forward when you have problems, and problems you don’t even know about yet, that are pending and that you are entangled in?

And his bad day coming up…He is on his way. We will discuss that.

When Brienne called to him, I was like….eh?

Uh….(picture Butthead’s voice) oh….er….uh….?

Nearly inoherent and I didn’t know what to say except:

What the hell is that all about? What is she doing? Trying to do? Up to? I cannot gauge how she thinks or hopes it is going to work out.

The only thing I can think of is: I have faith in her. I always have. She has, has got to have something up her sleeve we don’t know about or haven’t pieced together yet.

But…what could it fathomably be? And does she have a safe or a risky one? A Plan A, B, C,D….depending on the fact that she probably doesn’t know how it will play out either?

Sheldon Cooper’s impression of Admiral Ackbar “It’s a trap.”

Flew, flew into my head. Yes? Or…. No, she has a plan? A trap for someone/others and not him?

Now she is included in that bad day too.

For the life of me, I have no clue….what the hell she has up her sleeve or what he is going to have to find up his.

The tension is thick. Really, I get uptight even typing this.

I stopped and rubbed my hand over my eyes and face a few times.

So a little background….surely there are tons more. His many issues:

-He loathes that he couldn’t be the KG paragon that he envisions Arthur was and he knew him. He’d like that to change.

-Aerys and Tywin have manipulated him in the past. Yes, this has affected his life and outlook. He kills Aerys and becomes known as Kingslayer.

-Tyrion is pissed at him. Badly.

-Cersei manipulated him and still tries to. He is on to her. The lustre is off the pearl…his feelings for her have changed.

-He wants to do more for his kids now. His kids are in danger.

-Joffrey – Her fault – but any for him too? Maybe some better uncle quality time. Or really she is that overbearing and horded her kids. I know that. Was his hands tied with that one?

-What he did to Ned and his people.

-Bran – no explanation there.

-He was freed by Cat and wants to really find her girls.

-He is still okay with a sword, but not as good.

-Blackfish and BWB dispise him and LS hates him like Cat did. She does not trust him, neither do they.

-Varys and LS – not friends of his.

-Houses, smallfolk, nobles….Does does anyone like him anymore or did they ever?

This guy has enemies everywhere. Houses bound to his, and even people who are truly enemies and on the other side.

He is still making no friends with his stuff in the Riverlands – his treatment of the Tullys, he took a Bracken and a Blackwood as a hostage for insurance. He does get looped with stuff too that his father and siblings did.

Guys, he is not my area. This is so long. But please include anything else I forgot that’s a problem.

Isn’t everything with this guy?

Most of the Webbers except Brienne hate him.

So from what we know. He is headed straight for a Brienne that just almost got hung with an innocent boy and another man, and for there being evidence that she is in cahoots with Lannisters and especially him.

I believe she would be dead already if LS knew that Oathkeeper was even one drop of her beloved Ned’s Ice. God, she would be pissed. Brienne is expected to do away with him. Or LS and BWB would do it they assured her, and if that happens Brienne too, and Pod and Hyle. Three of them already got a practice run with that.

Jaime starts his day, he delegates a bit, and then thinking he sees Brienne and on to find the Hound, connected to his desire to keep his word and be a better man. And to find the girls, Sansa first.

His day is going to suck. I could die just imagining it hitting him on the spot of what is coming his way. He has no idea…no clue what he is in store for.

Okay, so how do you predict his day goes?

And further. He has to survive that day. Once he does, then he can go onto other theories people have. Valonqar, finding the girls, stuff with Brienne, whatever.

So let us start with the day and take it from there.

A little ambiance….

Here is Jaime. He is walking with Brienne. She opens her mouth to speak again after what we were left with in ADWD.

Ok, go….what the hell happens, do you think, and why?

I can type up something where I analyze the angles but let’s keep it loose first maybe?

And this thing is long enough.

[LongRider]

I can't predict GRRM at all, so don't feel bad at laffing at my expense. If Brienne is taking Jaime to LSH and the BWB, perhaps something: raiders, soldiers, craggomen, dragons, wild horses, giant spiders, Orcs or something (Sansa?) will engage the BWB and B & J can get away. Yup, that's my awesome prediction!

Whatever happens, I hope B & J and party all survive. More later, gotta run.

[Le Cygne]

Finding Sansa is about this:

Oathkeeper. I have to find the girl. I have to find his honor.

[Booknerd2]

I remember I said it in the first thing I ever wrote that was long on here.

"I don't ship for ship's sake, I let the ships sail towards me…"

I have no clue what will happen. But she does have feelings for him, and I think he does too. If anything, those two have a very long road ahead. I wish them luck. They are going to need it.

Just a few things. I have more but I have to cut down on these long posts a bit.

The gist of her message is. Alone and come quick. Rule #1 - You might have just tipped him off already that something is amiss. Everyone knows that come alone is never good. He is no fool.

It is just a bite? Bandaged that well. No bruising, cuts, dried blood, nothing to make it appear that it is not just a bite? He says she looks like 10 years older. That has nothing to do with a bite. I can even see the stress and strain she is under, and being sick from what happened to her. But no, I don't believe in UnBrienne. I would think he would notice that her face was hurt more or she was, than age. I have to check. Didn't she hurt other stuff too? I just thought he would notice she was in a tussle or something happened, more than what she said.

But it is not for our benefit. He sounds like he might know something is wrong with her too. Or something happened. But remember two scouts are hearing this whole conversation, so he is probably being careful. They never said in the book they walked away when she was brought to him.

When she says that single word, she touches Oathkeeper, that was given to her by Jaime. It is also a part of Ice. She swore an oath to Catelyn, not LS. I don't know how she weights that thought, if at all. But she also promised Jaime, and he has saved her maidenhood, her life, things very important to her.

She reminds him of the oath. As a statement. “My lord, you gave me a quest.” Uh-duh, he did. I don't like that she is reminding him. Like she is reassuring herself. Something doesn't sit right with me, with this. She sounds like guilty or doubtful.

He confirms and asks if she found her.

"I have." The Author calls her Brienne, Maid of Tarth. Formal, like this entire brief conversation.

He asks where she is, and is told she is a day’s ride (Sansa.) I think: ok, he is being told it is not far, and fewer provisions than if it was like a several day or weeks journey. She tells him not to tell anyone. Run and not tell anyone. She could have said more.

She says she can take him to her. She calls him "ser." Very formal, and is it more for the scouts, to address him as such? But…if he has to come alone, a red alert in itself. Why are they talking in front to the two men or whoever? Should I just imagine they walked away knowing to do so when the two conversed? Also, isn't that not good that others have that info. That if something happens, it will get back? It was the work of the BWB, there was no Hound or Sansa. It was a lure.

What is the "premise." She saw the Hound? Or she was near him and spoke? What are we supposed to think? Why would the Hound leave her to go? Jaime could have a group go there to really get her back, what if he disobeyed her words? I don't get it. I think it was risky what she told Jaime. What if he says no? Or let us do it my way. He cares for her yes, but sometimes people do what they want anyway.

Why would the Hound "let her" tip Jaime off?

In a way, between the "come alone" and the "Hound has Sansa." I think he may not believe her, but is acting for the benefit of her and the two scouts or whatever, until her really gets her alone to talk.

And of course, we think she is lying and there is no Hound. There are theories there could be. Jaime may believe her or not regarding the Hound. I think the Sansa is true bs, and she is where we last left her. That last part I believe.

I think she would have been happier if she found them. I think Jaime can pick up something is not right. A little more adrenaline rush, something. He may know she is "off."

Ok, let me stop here. And they are not my area, so I have a million more comments and questions.

[Le Cygne]

It's back to what Jaime said here, when they first met. Now Brienne sees it for herself:

"So many vows... they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or the other."