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The Snark of Winterfell

Hyrkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Neferion and Eldric Shadowchaser, same person or different?

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This is not a theory, more a question.



TWOIAF gave us some new names to the tPtwP as in the title.



"How long the darkness endured no man can say, but all agree that it was only when a great warrior - known variously as Hyrkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Neferion and Eldric Shadowchaser -- arose to give courage to the race of men and lead virtuous into battle with his blazing sword Lightbringer"



In the above quote all those names seem to refer to the same guy, the same story with Lightbringer at least according to Maester Yandel's telling.



Also, there is the last hero who sought the CotF during the long night. Who feels different.




Originally, we had tPtwP and AA, it has been debated whether or not they are the same. Many feel it was proven in the GRRM interview where he talks about them interchangeably, I personally am still open to the possibility of them being different and them being the same guy.



The same story is disseminated to the ends of the known world.



The major differences I get is tPtwP legend does not wield a sword while all the other have Lightbringer, except for The LH who wielded a sword of Dragonsteel.



The tPtwP's song is the song of ice and fire



The Last Hero's story has a specificity about going to the CotF.



Given the vast expanse of this story in places that have no business knowing each other, and I believe that the Long Night was felt globally, were there multiple instances of this hero at this time or is it all the same story?





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The thing with this stuff is that TWoIaF confirmed that the Long Night was a cataclysm felt over the whole world, and since it eventually subsided pretty much every culture or religion in Martinworld tells mythological tales about a great hero who they credit with the feature to restore warmth and light to the world, but this does not mean that this was actually the case - meaning that it is by for not clear whether the heroes of those stories did exists, and if they did, whether they accomplished what they supposedly accomplished (i.e. it is not clear if they ended the Long Night or if the Long Night just ended for some other reason).



What we get from the Yi Tish stories of their version of the hero (possibly Hyrkoon or Yin Tar) does not really fit the criteria of the stories about the Long Night, suggesting that all the Azor Ahai talk may wrongly attribute the Eastern heroic figures which deeds they did not actually do.



If Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Edric Shadowchaser, or Hyrkoon the Hero would have been the person Old Nan refers to as the Last Hero, people in Yi Ti, the Patrimony of Hyrkoon (most likely founded by the historical Hyrkoon the Hero, if he ever existed) etc. would know much more about what actually transpired in Westeros during the Long Night as they seem to know. After all, Old Nan's story seems to suggests that the Long Night ended with the victory over the Others, not with the downfall of the Yi Tish Bloodstone Emperor.



What we can safely say, I think, is that the historical Long Night generated a lot of savior myths and heroes in the East, because the people their needed an explanation for both the Long Night as a cataclysm as well as for it is eventual ending. But this also casts great doubt of the existence of a historical Azor Ahai in the East, and the fervent belief of some religious nuts that this hero may be reborn or return.



Yes, there are prophecies announcing the return/rebirth/coming of a savior figure (the promised prince), but it is a certain religious sect - the followers of R'hllor - who mainly identifies this promised prince with the mythical hero Azor Ahai. We as readers don't know yet if they have good reasons to believe that the promised prince is truly the historical Azor Ahai (or Hyrkoon, Yin Tar, or Eldric).



What makes sense, however, is the assumption that whatever hero(es) are prophesied to come (back) may have something to do with the original Last Hero who fought the Others in Westeros. Mostly because the origin and motivation of the Others as well as the events that caused and ended the Long Night are deliberately kept secret by George, which is pretty big hint that those things will be discussed in future novels.



Especially since we should actually assume that the new heroes - i.e. most likely the three heads of the dragon, in my opinion - will have to deal with the Others/Long Night thing in a much more ultimate way than the Last Hero did, since he obviously failed to end this threat for all time. That could hint at the fact that whoever heroes are stepping forward are not a reiteration/rebirth/return of the Azor Ahai or the Last Hero, but essentially a new thing capable and destined to end the threat for all time.


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So:



Hyrkoon ---> Patrimony of Hyrkoon


Azor Ahai ---> Asshai


Yin Tar ---> Yi Ti?


Neferion --> Nefer/N'ghai?



Eldric Shadowchaser ---> The Last Hero's name?


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So:

Hyrkoon ---> Patrimony of Hyrkoon

Azor Ahai ---> Asshai

Yin Tar ---> Yi Ti?

Neferion --> Nefer/N'ghai?

Eldric Shadowchaser ---> The Last Hero's name?

No idea about who Eldric is, they sort of glossed over the individuals in TWOIAF and lumped them together, I just took it as the long night affected everyone and the most distant places are connected to this cataclysm/event/darkness.

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So:

Hyrkoon ---> Patrimony of Hyrkoon

Azor Ahai ---> Asshai

Yin Tar ---> Yi Ti?

Neferion --> Nefer/N'ghai?

Eldric Shadowchaser ---> The Last Hero's name?

Azor Ahai sounds more like a Sarnori name. There were a couple of similar names mentioned in their section.

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Each region has its own take on a popular myth. The name of a hero will be recognisable as one from that region. They are all the same guy, in the same myth, told with differences depending on which area you hear it told.



Being semi-topical, as we're almost at a universally known time, look at Father Christmas. Some areas prefer to use Santa Claus, and everything seems parallel with their stories. The usual description being a guy with a white beard, who wears a red suit. In some tales he doesn't have reindeer pulling a sleigh or elves. Some believe he's Good King Wenceslas. There are other similar figures with very different names and not linked to anything taking place during December.


Another side of this is where places don't celebrate Christmas but, this guy in the suit bringing presents to kids is kinda cool. So, Father Christmas or Santa Claus is adopted.


Don't forget what's important. You must be good or else he'll not come because he knows.



Anyhow, back to Westeros and Essos. Storytellers and minstrels were the most common methods of carrying news before the majority of people begin to learn to read. Each tells a tale in his own distinctive way. Each embellishes parts to make the telling of the tale have impact. Enemies become strange, powerful beasts. (Who cares for an ordinary man being defeated when a hero can defeat a monster 5 times his size?) No self-respecting hero can have anything less than a magical sword. (One that's aflame would be very striking image-wise.) Any amount of twists can added by another story-teller.


Somewhere along the line, you do get the common tale with a whole plethora of magical happening. In time, very likely as legends are written down, each area's version becomes fixed.



You can take GRRM's way of working as an example. He'll have the idea for an arc. He'll know what the path is. It's the words that take the time to tell the story. Once in print, they are fixed and those are the same words every reader sees, allowing for translations.


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To me, this seems more on parallel with our world's own kind of myth retold throughout different cultures of the world. The Flood. Nearly all of the most ancient cultures had a legend of a great flooding of our world, including the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and the story of Noah's Arc. The Long Night seems to me to be an ancient cataclysm that affected all the ancient cultures of Martin's world in a similar fashion.


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Yes I agree. Interesting in some ways what didn't get adopted. The Bloodstone Emperor tale is all about the sun turning away while night rushes in. It says nothing about ice. The Yi To likely weren't so much iced over as some places, being further south, but they still experienced the darkness like everyone else, so the story kept the everlasting night part but not the ice when it was adopted.

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Yes I agree. Interesting in some ways what didn't get adopted. The Bloodstone Emperor tale is all about the sun turning away while night rushes in. It says nothing about ice. The Yi To likely weren't so much iced over as some places, being further south, but they still experienced the darkness like everyone else, so the story kept the everlasting night part but not the ice when it was adopted.

That's because the Others don't bring the cold, they come with it, but only in the far north of Westeros. The full darkness of the Long Night, however, comes across all the known world. The Others, likely, only come when the Long Night comes, and leave when it ends. It could be that on the part of the world they're from, it is normally extremely cold during all seasons, and becomes extremely hot when the Long Night comes to the known world, so they migrate with the climate. They know that when they do need to come to Westeros with the Long Night, they'll have to face down the armies of Men who already inhabit that land. Men, however, don't realize that the land the Others come from would be physically hospitable for them during this time. Perhaps the series will end with a Pact of Ice and Fire, between Men and Others to allow peaceful migration away from the inhospitable lands for each species. This would make the Others a species fighting to survive the extreme climate changes, and they kill Men only because they know that Men will fight them for invading their land.

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I think that when The Long Night ended most of the people didn't know how did it end, so they came up with tales in every part of the world, so this why there are more names mentioned.


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I think that all these legends are not necessarily connected. All the cultures around Planetos faced the Long Night in one way or another but they didn't play an active part in restoring the balance? (I don't know if balance is the right word since it doesn't seem to be the case but at least they escaped the Long Night) So because of their lack of involvement in the real fight which by all accounts happened in Westeros, everyone just tried to find an explanation that would fit their mythology and beliefs. That means that all those heroes are not the same guy reshaped to fit each culture but rather a made up legend that might have no tie whatsoever to the real event. Now, I'm more inclined to believe the Last Hero story because it originated in the North and as such it's closer to the place where the events took place, which means it has a bigger chance of having some truth in it.
Talking about the Last Hero, I found a little fragment in TWOIAF about him that sounded very familiar. It describes his journey to find the Children, who in turn help the first men of the Night's Watch to win the battle and restore the seasons (kinda). On my first read I thought that this story is very similar to Bran's arc. This is what he does. He went on a journey to find the Children, he found them, he is training to become the greatest greenseer and will most probably aid Jon and the Night's Watch in their battle against the Others. Maybe it's me reading too much between the lines but this just hit me. Did someone else think the same?

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I assume

Hyrkoon the Hero - Patrimony of Hyrkoon (obvious)

Azor Ahai- Asshai

Yin Tar - Yi Ti

Neferion - Valyria? (Sounds kinda valyrian to me)

Eldric Shadowchaser - Westeros? Andalos?

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They might be the same the person, they might not be. There is the theory of a Eastern Crisis during the Long Night, with some kind of invasion in Eastern Essos, which lead to the construction of the 5 Forts. The Essosi hero could be tied to someone from that crisis, who is not related to the Last Hero of Westeros.


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The LN (blocking of the sun, death of vegetation, starvation, mass migrations etc.) likely caused great problems in Essos. Even without the Others, they suffered terribly. They probably had many leaders who tried to take their people to safety.


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