theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 One could say Kennedy but that would be in really bad taste. Damn it man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Disgusting comments by disgusting people aside, I think that one could argue (if one could agree upon a definition of "head held high") that only three post WW2 President's have left office on anything close to a high note (Ike, Reagan, Clinton). Fatigue and scandals tend to set in around year 6 of an 8-year term. Iran-Contra for Reagan, Lewinsky for Clinton. Bush the Lesser's facade of competence slipped in his fifth year when he let an American city drown. Obama's been under siege from his inauguration but I think his overall approval rating became a net negative this year. Feels like people just get tired of a President after about that long. Funnily enough, Bush I would be a respectable choice for the Republicans to remember fondly -- he managed his own Iraq war quite well, was very skillful with his foreign policy, and certainly governed more competently than his son. But, he raised taxes, so that makes him a leper in the simplistic GOP worldview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Fatigue and scandals always set in around year 6 of an 8-year term. Iran-Contra for Reagan, Lewinsky for Clinton. Funnily enough, Bush I would be a respectable choice for the Republicans to remember fondly -- he managed his own Iraq war quite well, was very skillful with his foreign policy, and certainly governed more competently than his son. But, he raised taxes, so that makes him a leper in the simplistic GOP worldview. He also lost. Always a downer. And Iran-Contra (sadly) isn't even remembered by the american right. Ollie The Traitor North is a fucking Fox News correspondent. Democrats view the Lewinsky impeachment thing as bullshit. Neither matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Disgusting comments by disgusting people aside, I think that one could argue (if one could agree upon a definition of "head held high") that only three post WW2 President's have left office on anything close to a high note (Ike, Reagan, Clinton). Clinton? I don't know about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee baby Shamus Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He also lost. Always a downer. And Iran-Contra (sadly) isn't even remembered by the american right. Ollie The Traitor North is a fucking Fox News correspondent. Democrats view the Lewinsky impeachment thing as bullshit. Neither matters. If Ross Perot hadn't run history would have been different but that is all in the past and doesn't matter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He also lost. Always a downer. And Iran-Contra (sadly) isn't even remembered by the american right. Ollie The Traitor North is a fucking Fox News correspondent. Democrats view the Lewinsky impeachment thing as bullshit. Neither matters. He lost, to the most gifted politician in a generation. Maybe I've got too sunny a view of Bush I, as he can only look good in comparison to his idiot child. I remember FLOW crowing about how clever Iran-Contra was. I suspect that in the darkest corners of their hearts, the American right wing likes it that Reagan allowed his people to sell weapons to Muslims to kill other Muslims, so that he could fund Central Americans who were killing other Central Americans. Really a hat-trick for Republican values. But it is satisfying to be able to remind the Reagan whitewashing brigade that their big hero sold weapons to a state sponsor of terrorism. Probably just a nice kickback for the October Surprise help in 1980. But you are talking about the memories of partisans. I'm talking about the general population. The mutable middle eventually tires of second-term Presidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If Ross Perot hadn't run history would have been different but that is all in the past and doesn't matter now. Not really, exit night polls showed that Perot took relatively even amount of votes from both candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Minsc,Andrew Jackson does have a supposedly famous quote dealing with the issue of enforcementDo you recall the context of the Old Possum's famous quote? Hardly an auspious moment in US history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He lost, to the most gifted politician in a generation. Maybe I've got too sunny a view of Bush I, as he can only look good in comparison to his idiot child. I remember FLOW crowing about how clever Iran-Contra was. I suspect that in the darkest corners of their hearts, the American right wing likes it that Reagan allowed his people to sell weapons to Muslims to kill other Muslims, so that he could fund Central Americans who were killing other Central Americans. Really a hat-trick for Republican values. But it is satisfying to be able to remind the Reagan whitewashing brigade that their big hero sold weapons to a state sponsor of terrorism. Probably just a nice kickback for the October Surprise help in 1980. But you are talking about the memories of partisans. I'm talking about the general population. The mutable middle eventually tires of second-term Presidents. Do they? Clinton is still well liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Do they? Clinton is still well liked. I think public opinion of him ticked upward towards the end (and his recovery was helped by the public's very negative reaction to the GOP impeachment circus), but the sixth year or so was pretty grim for him. I'd say the "depends on the definition of 'is'" period was a low point. But no question, he's the most successful and most well-remembered President of recent memory -- whitewashed terrorist-funding fraud in a Grecian Formulaed pompadour aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Minsc,Do you recall the context of the Old Possum's famous quote? Hardly an auspious moment in US history. Just because he did it over a dick issue doesn't change the issuing regarding the president responsibility regarding enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He lost, to the most gifted politician in a generation. Maybe I've got too sunny a view of Bush I, as he can only look good in comparison to his idiot child. I remember FLOW crowing about how clever Iran-Contra was. I suspect that in the darkest corners of their hearts, the American right wing likes it that Reagan allowed his people to sell weapons to Muslims to kill other Muslims, so that he could fund Central Americans who were killing other Central Americans. Really a hat-trick for Republican values. But it is satisfying to be able to remind the Reagan whitewashing brigade that their big hero sold weapons to a state sponsor of terrorism. Probably just a nice kickback for the October Surprise help in 1980. But you are talking about the memories of partisans. I'm talking about the general population. The mutable middle eventually tires of second-term Presidents.The hate is strong in this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If a Republican gets back into the White House, I expect them to chill out a bit. Still be awful to be sure. Just not quite as awful as they've been as the opposition in the Obama era. I agree, but I also think a white Democrat would soothe them a bit as well. Also, I'm exaggerating on the Reagan thing, but not by much. It's interesting, too, to recall that Reagan in his time took a lot of flak from conservatives like George Will for being too soft on the Russians, compromising with congressional Democrats on tax hikes, etc. Those same conservatives today revere Reagan as the avatar of Torm the True or whoever, and have adjusted their memories to accommodate this revised history. Honestly, it's impossible to have a rational conversation with a conservative about Reagan, because they'll deny even proven facts that don't jibe with the mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Minsc,No, it illustrates what can happen when the President abuses his discretion. That suggests to me the President, whoever happens to be in office, should have less discretion in order to prevent things like the Trail of Tears that occur when bastards like the Old Possum decide they are above the laws they are sworn to uphold and protect.Why the fuck is that piece of shit on the Twenty dollar bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Minsc,No, it illustrates what can happen when the President abuses his discretion. That suggests to me the President, whoever happens to be in office should have less discretion in order to prevent things like the Trail of Tears that occur when bastards like the Old Possum decide they are above the laws they are sworn to uphold and protect.Why the fuck is that piece of shit on the Twenty dollar bill? Revisionist history is a hell of a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Man, can you imagine the American right's reaction if the Obama administration had pulled off Iran/Contra? *Syrian rebels* cough *fast & furious* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Shryke,Pardon? Not sure what you mean. That the portayal of The Old Possum as a genocide is revisionist or that the enobling of the Old Possum is revisionist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Revisionist history is a hell of a thing. Most American history is heavily revised. A good thing to remember as we come up on Thanksgiving and celebrate the founding myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Why the fuck is that piece of shit on the Twenty dollar bill? Because he is still one of the most influential presidents in American History. Though, if you want you could just take it as a subtle jab at him in connection to his opposition to the National Bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Minsc,But his influence was almost universally terrible. We're still dealing with the legacy created by the Old Possum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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