Aegor and Brynden: Worst uncles ever

[C.T. Phipps]

Only on the Iron Isles, or if it is the HS. The priest wouldn't have the faith, and he could be stripped of his position.

The priest would still have his training and knowledge of piety. Many a disgraced priest has gone on to continue their rhetoric.

Just look at the current High Septon to show how lowly ones can become dangerous.

In any case, killing him was brutal but he was flat out inciting rebellion.

[Fire Eater]

The priest would still have his training and knowledge of piety. Many a disgraced priest has gone on to continue their rhetoric.

Just look at the current High Septon to show how lowly ones can become dangerous.

In any case, killing him was brutal but he was flat out inciting rebellion.

The HS, who commands the Faith. The septon could have been tried and imprisoned, or sent to the Wall. The septon didn't seem to command a large following.

[C.T. Phipps]

The HS, who commands the Faith. The septon could have been tried and imprisoned, or sent to the Wall. The septon didn't seem to command a large following.

It's a terror tactic. A lesson treason will be shown no mercy even if you're a priest (and presumably noble).

Bloodraven is all about terror as a weapon.

Mercy undermines that.

[the conquering bastard 25]

@fire eater

Even in real world situations the church and its mouth pieces have been used as a political stage. Henry VIII and getting the clergy to pray for their new queen Anne Boleyn and the people rather than commit treason walked out of the church.

If the mouth pieces of the main religion is seen to support another candidate for the throne, ppl are going to start to wonder if things might not be better under a different ruler, especially given the fact that after the first rebellion there was plauge and famine in the realm, men might begin to wonder which is why the priest and his preachings were dangerous and your smart enough to know this

[Fire Eater]

@fire eater

Even in real world situations the church and its mouth pieces have been used as a political stage. Henry VIII and getting the clergy to pray for their new queen Anne Boleyn and the people rather than commit treason walked out of the church.

If the mouth pieces of the main religion is seen to support another candidate for the throne, ppl are going to start to wonder if things might not be better under a different ruler, especially given the fact that after the first rebellion there was plauge and famine in the realm, men might begin to wonder which is why the priest and his preachings were dangerous and your smart enough to know this

It's a terror tactic. A lesson treason will be shown no mercy even if you're a priest (and presumably noble).

Bloodraven is all about terror as a weapon.

Mercy undermines that.

If I had seen a trial I would have been felt better. Follow what Tyrion said, "When you tear a man's tongue out, you're not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say." They could have sent their agents to ridicule or challenge him, or dealt with him some other way.

[Colonel Green]

Inciting rebellion against the Crown has been a death penalty offense in pretty much every medieval state. Plenty of Elizabethan-era clergy were hanged, drawn and quartered for it.

Moreover, what the guy was saying is not new. "Ridiculing or challenging" him is pointless; the realm knows all these accusations already, and a substantial number took up arms on that belief. The point is to send a message that people who continue to spread this accusation will not be tolerated.

[C.T. Phipps]

Inciting rebellion against the Crown has been a death penalty offense in pretty much every medieval state. Plenty of Elizabethan-era clergy were hanged, drawn and quartered for it.

Moreover, what the guy was saying is not new. "Ridiculing or challenging" him is pointless; the realm knows all these accusations already, and a substantial number took up arms on that belief. The point is to send a message that people who continue to spread this accusation will not be tolerated.

Plus, it was right next to a Blackfyre rebellion plot in the making.

[Denam_Pavel]

Inciting rebellion against the Crown has been a death penalty offense in pretty much every medieval state. Plenty of Elizabethan-era clergy were hanged, drawn and quartered for it.

Moreover, what the guy was saying is not new. "Ridiculing or challenging" him is pointless; the realm knows all these accusations already, and a substantial number took up arms on that belief. The point is to send a message that people who continue to spread this accusation will not be tolerated.

Aenys OFFERED to put his name in the hat as possible candidate at a time when they were contemplating who the next king should be. If that's "inciting rebellion" then so is everyone else. There's no legal pretext here. Maekar didn't disenhired Aerion and his children as far as we know. Aegon III's boy king days were really difficult, we don't feel like dealing with all that again. That's all it was.

[Lord Varys]

I imagine that Daeron II attainted Daemon I and all his children when Daemon rebelled against him. By declaring he had a claim to the Iron Throne - when in fact only Targaryens had a claim to the Iron Throne - Aenys was committing treason.

[Denam_Pavel]

I imagine that Daeron II attainted Daemon I and all his children when Daemon rebelled against him. By declaring he had a claim to the Iron Throne - when in fact only Targaryens had a claim to the Iron Throne - Aenys was committing treason.

Was Kyle the Cat committing high treason when considering Bloodraven's claim? All Aenys did was send a letter. A simple "no" would've sufficed.

[Lord Varys]

This has been discussed already: We don't know whether Aenys intended to come anyway, invited/backed by remaining Blackfyre loyalists.

Painting Bloodraven in a light that gave the impression he was after the throne, and plotting to murder Aerys, Rhaegel, Aelor, and Maekar could be construed as treason, yes.

[C.T. Phipps]

I imagine that Daeron II attainted Daemon I and all his children when Daemon rebelled against him. By declaring he had a claim to the Iron Throne - when in fact only Targaryens had a claim to the Iron Throne - Aenys was committing treason.

I think that's really stretching things by feudal law. The Dance of the Dragons, after all, ends with the losing side on the throne.

[Lord Varys]

The Blackfyres never one. And the Blacks effectively did win the Dance, both militarily as well as dynastically.

[C.T. Phipps]

The Blackfyres never one. And the Blacks effectively did win the Dance, both militarily as well as dynastically.

The Blackfyres had a claim to the throne which they were attempting to press. Brynden decided to assassinate their current candidate to nip any ambitions in the bud.

As for the Blacks, they only won by the fact their son wasn't killed by the actual winners.

Then again, saying ANYONE won the Dance is kind of stretching things.

[Lord Varys]

Aenys Blackfyre was not the current king of the Blackfyres. That was Haegon's eldest son, Daemon III. Aenys was a guy further down the usual line of succession. The King on the Iron Throne presumably invalidated/exiled/attainted the whole Blackfyre line when Daemon I rebelled, and even if he had not did that - Daemon I was younger than Daemon, and declaring somebody a bastard without any evidence while you are not actually king is not exactly legally binding (or a particular successful ploy, apparently).

Thus we can say that from the POV to the people in power (i.e. the Iron Throne/Crown) the Blackfyres were essentially traitors without any claim to the Iron Throne.

The Blacks won the Dance in the following sense:

1. A Black army - the young Riverlords - defeated the last Green host in the field and lay siege to King's Landing.

2. Another Black army - Lord Cregan's host - was on his way to the capital to unseat/execute Aegon II.

Those were real military threats to the Green cause, and taken seriously as such, as they led to

3. A bunch of courtiers/advisers under the leadership (presumably) of Corlys Velaryon and Larys Strong poisoned Aegon II and crowned Aegon III instead, in a desperate (and failed) attempt to carry favor with the victorious Blacks.

After the coronation of Aegon III the only real threat his reign was the prospect of the arrival of Essosi sellswords, as, apparently, the remaining Hightowers, Lannisters, and Baratheon had no objections against the cold-blooded murder of Aegon II nor the rise of Aegon III as they accepted whatever terms Lord Corlys gave them (most likely nothing but a pardon and a confirmation of their lands and holdings).

We should also keep in mind that especially Corlys was most likely never a true and loyal Green to begin with. Aegon II apparently pardoned him and appointed him to his council, but this does not mean that he ever really joined his cause (the whole thing looks suspiciously as if Aegon II had kept Corlys as a hostage at court). Aegon II was involved in Rhaenys' death, after all, and it seems that Aegon II did not only have Aegon the Younger but also Corlys' granddaughter Baela as a hostage, too.

There may have been bad blood between Rhaenyra and Corlys, but never between Aegon the Younger and Corlys...

[the conquering bastard 25]

@fire eater,

The idea of a trial and such would make you feel better, but that doesn't change the fact that BR more than likely had spies in the crowd or he was there himself in disguise no need for a trial, which would only serve to spread his message to not the common ppl. But the nobles whom have arms and the ability to hire more of need be. So holding a trial is just as dangerous

[C.T. Phipps]

@fire eater,

The idea of a trial and such would make you feel better, but that doesn't change the fact that BR more than likely had spies in the crowd or he was there himself in disguise no need for a trial, which would only serve to spread his message to not the common ppl. But the nobles whom have arms and the ability to hire more of need be. So holding a trial is just as dangerous

A trial is also to determine the guilt of a person.

He's guilty.

So what's the point?

[the conquering bastard 25]

I did say that the trial was pointless with either BR being there and heard the man's word and thus judged him guilty or because of the spies and knowing what's going down at Whitehall, and yeah if that's not enough reason for not holding a trial then there's the danger of taking this man to the capital and having his words repeated for the nobles.

[C.T. Phipps]

In any case, Bloodraven strikes me as a great uncle.

It's just Daemon forced him to choose.

And when that happened, he was "all in."

[the conquering bastard 25]

Thank you like I said loyalty goes a long way in my book along with being able to live with the consequences of your actions something BS didn't and wouldn't do.