Aerea & Rhalla Targareyn

[Padraig O'Sullivan]

What became of them? Did they become septas or die young. They wouldn't have married into any noble house in case of future rivals trying to claim the Iron Throne.

They might have even been betrothed to their uncle Jaehaerys sons at some point.

[Lord Varys]

It seems that they were married and had children of their own - or at least one of them - as there were nine lesser claimants to the Iron Throne besides Laenor and Viserys at the Great Council, and it does not strike me likely that Aemma Arryn Targaryen, Prince Daemon, Prince Aegon (if he was still alive), or Princess Alyssa (if she was still alive) presented their claims against Viserys.

And all the children of Jaehaerys and Alysanne besides Princess Saera and Archmaester Vaegon (who both most likely also did not push their own claims) seem to have been dead in 101 AC. Thus a lot of those nine lesser claimants would have been the descendants of Aerea and Rhalla.

Or other descendants of Rhaena Targaryen, if she took a third husband after the death of Maegor.

I assume that Aerea/Rhalla would have married into House Velaryon, and if neither is the mother of Lord Corlys (it would be rather difficult, age-wise), it may be one of them is the ancestor of Alyn Velaryon's cousin Daeron Velaryon, who was the father of Daenaera Velaryon, the second wife of Aegon III.

But Rhaena herself could have been the mother of Corlys...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I agree that Rhaena is most likely for Corlys' mother, if he indeed had a Targaryen mother (and not a Targaryen grandmother, for example).

I do wonder if Jaehaerys would have allowed two Velaryons to marry a Targaryen. That would give House Velaryon quite an advantage...

But potential husbands for Aerea and Rhalla, I wouldn't know currently... You'd think that if they had daughters, these daughters would have been married back into the main line as soon as possible...

[Colonel Green]

If Rhaena was Corlys' mother, I think the text would have said said (especially as that would have given him at least something of a claim on the throne in his own right).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If Rhaena was Corlys' mother, I think the text would have said said (especially as that would have given him at least something of a claim on the throne in his own right).

No, I don't think she would have had the better claim.. Aegon was Aenys' heir, I believe that was somewhere specifically stated in the text of the World Book. So at least the way Aenys saw it, the inheritance wasn't going from eldest to youngest, but from eldest male to youngest male.. And Jaehaerys would still have been higher in succession than Rhaena..

Though, even if that wasn't the case, I can see why Rhaena wouldn't want Corlys to place a claim. Her husband placed a claim, and he was killed for it.

[Colonel Green]

I never said "better claim". I said "a claim".

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Whoops, sorry :)

[Lord Varys]

I'm inclined to believe that Alyssa Velaryon would have brokered the third marriage for Rhaena, and would also have made the matches for Aerea and Rhalla.

The Jocelyn-Aemon match also seems to betray Alyssa/Robar's handwriting. The traditional Targaryen way would have been to marry the eldest daughter, Princess Alyssa, to the eldest (surviving) son, Prince Aemon.

I could see Rhaena marrying Corlys' father, Aerea a younger Velaryon brother, and Rhalla perhaps Boremund Baratheon...?

We should go with the assumption that Alyssa Velaryon's children all stood in unison against Maegor, and that it was, for them, clear that Jaehaerys would succeed Maegor in 48 AC, not Rhaena or Aerea/Rhalla. This assumption is backed by the fact that Alyssa served as Queen Regent for Jaehaerys I, as well as by the fact that Rhaena fled KL on Dreamfyre when Jaehaerys made his claim known, and delivered Blackfyre to her brother.

Thus there is little reason to assume that the family had any reason to believe that they would risk disunity and strife by allowing Rhaena and her children to marry into House Velaryon (or Baratheon). There would also have been little reason to marry any sons or daughters from those lines back into the main Targaryen line, as that was clearly the line of Jaehaerys and Alysanne, who would have been recognized as the true king and queen by Rhaena and her children and grandchildren, and they would go on and marry their children to each other, not necessarily to their cousins.

But my guess is that those children were simply of the wrong gender (and born at the wrong time). Jaehaerys and Alysanne had few sons and many daughters, and they would not marry those daughters to a male Targaryen descendant from another house to create another cadet branch with too much royal blood.

One can make a case that it would have been stated if Corlys was Rhaena's son, but the truth is that we simply do not know. And since we also do not know who the nine lesser claimants were, it may very well be that Corlys was one of them, or could have been one, if he had presented his claim - I assume he did not, as Rhaenys, Laena, and especially Laenor had much better claims, and he knew it.

[Jaak]

In 48, Jaehaerys and Alysanne were 14 and 12. We find that they did not marry for 5 years, till they were 19 and 17 respectively... and that even though Maegor had married at age 13.

By 53, Aerea was 10. So, if Jaehaerys already had waited 5 years, why not wait a few more and marry Aerea rather than Alysanne? That would have put the claim of Aegon and Aerea to rest.

[Lord Varys]

Actually, it is said that Jaehaerys married Alysanne when he came of age, which would have been in 50 AC, not later. Ran explained that the discrepancy in the number of years they were married comes from the fact that George considers the years they separated following the First and Second Quarrel as a temporal end to their marriage.

And as I've said above: The fact that Rhaena and Alyssa Velaryon both supported Jaehaerys' claim strongly suggests that Rhaena had no problem with the fact that her girls had been passed over. If this had been consensus among the members of House Targaryen at this point, and was the case throughout the reign of Jaehaerys I - and there seems to be no reason to doubt that - it is no surprise that very few people supported the claims of Aerea and Rhalla's children or grandchildren at the Great Council in 101.

[Jaak]

And as I've said above: The fact that Rhaena and Alyssa Velaryon both supported Jaehaerys' claim strongly suggests that Rhaena had no problem with the fact that her girls had been passed over.

We only hear how they reacted when Jaehaerys rebelled against Maegor. We don´t hear how they reacted later on, when Jaehaerys and Alysanne married.

[Colonel Green]

I'm inclined to believe that Alyssa Velaryon would have brokered the third marriage for Rhaena, and would also have made the matches for Aerea and Rhalla.

Rhaena, as an adult women twice widowed (and with a dragon), would be making her own marital arrangements, I would expect, particularly after her experience of being forced to marry Maegor.

[Lord Varys]

Jaak,

I imagine Aenys/Alyssa decided to betroth Jaehaerys and Alysanne to each other back when Aegon and Rhaena married. I don't think this came to a surprise to anyone later on.

Colonel Green,

not sure if a royal princess was ever legally allowed to broker her own marriage. But it is entirely likely that Alyssa/Jaehaerys did allow Rhaena to choose her third husband herself, if she did marry a third time.

[voodooqueen126]

Jaak,

I imagine Aenys/Alyssa decided to betroth Jaehaerys and Alysanne to each other back when Aegon and Rhaena married. I don't think this came to a surprise to anyone later on.

Colonel Green,

not sure if a royal princess was ever legally allowed to broker her own marriage. But it is entirely likely that Alyssa/Jaehaerys did allow Rhaena to choose her third husband herself, if she did marry a third time.

Would Rhaena have been able to conceive after her experiences with Maegor.

[Colonel Green]

Rhaena was married to Maegor for about a year, and no pregnancy is mentioned. I don't see why any of that should have affected her fertility -- the problem was Maegor.

[Maia]

And as I've said above: The fact that Rhaena and Alyssa Velaryon both supported Jaehaerys' claim strongly suggests that Rhaena had no problem with the fact that her girls had been passed over. If this had been consensus among the members of House Targaryen at this point, and was the case throughout the reign of Jaehaerys I - and there seems to be no reason to doubt that - it is no surprise that very few people supported the claims of Aerea and Rhalla's children or grandchildren at the Great Council in 101.

It still seems rather odd, IMHO, that Aegon's girls being passed over had not been used as one of the precedents for a female heir being skipped in favor of a male or for a male heir through the female line being skipped in favor of one through the male line.

It is even odder that Rhaena seemingly grabbed a sword when she escaped on her dragon... but not her girls. I can't believe that she would have left her young daughters in the hands of a man who had her middle brother tortured to death over a period of days. They had to be already dead, IMHO.

The lesser claimants could have been her grandchildren from a third marriage.

[Lord Varys]

All we know is that Aerea was named Maegor's heir - that does not suggest that he killed either her or Rhalla. And just because we don't know that Rhaena escaped with her girls does not mean that she did not. I'd assume she did.

It is also possible that Jaehaerys deliberately chose to name Baelon heir over Rhaenys because he rose to the Iron Throne over the claims of Aerea and Rhalla.

[Jaak]

Jaak,

I imagine Aenys/Alyssa decided to betroth Jaehaerys and Alysanne to each other back when Aegon and Rhaena married. I don't think this came to a surprise to anyone later on.

Who did Aenys think Viserys should marry?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Who did Aenys think Viserys should marry?

No idea.. I personally don't think that it had been decided that Jaehaerys and Alysanne would need to marry back in 41AC.. Both were only children, 7 and 5 years old only, and there are no textual hints for it..

Jaehaerys and Alysanne ended up being the only ones of their siblings left, with their line greatly reduced, so they needed to be able to continue their line, and quickly.. Instead of Jaehaerys waiting for Rhalla or Aerea to grown old enough to birth children (and not at an extremely young age which would increase their chances of dying childhood), he married the woman who was old enough.. Alysanne. It makes sense...

Perhaps they had planned to marry Aerea to Aegon, their firstborn (as she seems to have been the eldest of the twins; depending on when Aegon died).. The fact that neither Rhalla nor Aerea were married to Aemon, or Baelon or any other son, could suggest that the difference in age was too big between the children, and that either Rhalla and Aerea had already married, or had already died.

[Lord Varys]

Hm. I did not think about Viserys. But since Aenys decided to continue the incest in 41 AC, and Alyssa continued the tradition, my guess is that Aenys would have married Alysanne to Jaehaerys rather than to Viserys as they had been closer in age. Viserys could have married another Velaryon cousin, a daughter of Daemon Velaryon, or somebody else.

The main reason why I think that Alyssa Velaryon brokered all those marriages (Jaehaerys and Alysanne; Aerea, Rhalla, and Rhaena, if any of them lived long enough to marry (again)) is the Aemon-Jocelyn match. This is the only known instance when a non-Targaryen house was ever involved in the incest (aunt to nephew) - the known Velaryon-Targaryen marriages all involve cousins of various degrees - and the really important thing there is that Jocelyn was Prince Aemon's maternal aunt. This would have been really exceptional. One could even start wondering whether Aenys' idea to marry Rhaena to Aegon originated with Alyssa, as the Valyrian incest should really not be the Baratheon/Durrandon way.

I'm pretty sure this could only happen because Alyssa Velaryon was still an important figure at her son's court long after her second husband Robar Baratheon resigned as Hand of the King. When Prince Aemon and Jocelyn were old enough to marry Septon Barth must have been already Hand, suggesting that this match was brokered by Alyssa rather than Robar.