Regarding Aegon and Daenerys

[The silver dragon]

If JonCon Approach the GC to help Aegon get the throne and restore the Dragon Dynasty, then they were not going to agree to viserys on his terms, they were going to wait until they were all ready on JonCon terms.

Didn't you forget that the GC was waiting for Dany outside of Volantis so they could join up, but she didn't go. Illyrio Sent Strong Belwus and Sir Barriston to get her and she refused, he sent Tyrion along with Aegon to get her, but Tyrion presuded Aegon to make Dany come to him in westeros (which I believe was some damn good advise.)

But does he look like Rhaegar though. All of ya'll keep bring me either one or two out of three. They might have the Features but no looks, i might get looks but no feature. This all boils down to three things, Did Vary and Illyrio by some miracle found a boy in Essos of the right age, right looks, and Right features and fooled everyone into believe that lie when people bearle believe thing they say anyways.

Or Did Varys did smuggle Aegon out of KL like he did Tyrion

I have and i still not seeing proper replacement from anybody, all i'm getting is maybes and somewhat

1.) jon con left the gold company and cut all ties when he left to squire aegon. does it make a large difference? short answer yes it does more lords would support Viserys with an army at his back the a targ from the same family who's dead.

he look's like a valyrian, in fact just a little thing i should mention aegon has ​Blueish purple eyes, rhaegaer had dark indigo eyes even jon con notes that his eyes are different than rhaegar's, being lighter and elia eyes certainly wren't purple.

[Isobel Harper]

You still didn't get it. Ok i'll try one more time

If you believe Jon snow is the son of Rhaegar, then Jon Snow has no outward Targ appearance and he is only one generation off from Rhaegar

But Here come Aegon, A boy that looks a Targ, is the right age, and at the right time, but no one believe him or his story, so they try to make him a pretender from over a half dozen generations descendent line.

See how little sense the Blackfyre theroy came it thought of that way?

Please tell this is making some king of sense.

I think you're mixing our knowledge with Westerosi knowledge. No one in Westeros knows that R+L=J, from what we can tell. The confusion lies in that it sounds like you're arguing for Aegon being fake, when in fact you believe Aegon is not fake.

First a reader assumes that a son of a Targaryen would have stereotypical Targaryen features. Then, Jon shows that this is not always the case. Seeing this exception, the reader might then assume that Aegon's features were "too Targaryen" and "too obvious" to be real. Surely he'd have darker features like Jon right?

A Westerosi, with no idea of R+L=J, would see Aegon Targaryen features and assume (most likely) that he's a Targaryen.

[Justin Amey]

I think you're mixing our knowledge with Westerosi knowledge. No one in Westeros knows that R+L=J, from what we can tell. The confusion lies in that it sounds like you're arguing for Aegon being fake, when in fact you believe Aegon is not fake.

First a reader assumes that a son of a Targaryen would have stereotypical Targaryen features. Then, Jon shows that this is not always the case. Seeing this exception, the reader might then assume that Aegon's features were "too Targaryen" and "too obvious" to be real. Surely he'd have darker features like Jon right?

A Westerosi, with no idea of R+L=J, would see Aegon Targaryen features and assume (most likely) that he's a Targaryen.

That is the confusion. I'll be short with my answer: I believe Aegon is the Son of Rhaegar because I believe it would impossible for Varys or Illyrio in their spare time to Find a child that would fit every criteria they need to replace Aegon. It would be far easier to find a replacement for Rhaenyes than Aegon

1.) jon con left the gold company and cut all ties when he left to squire aegon. does it make a large difference? short answer yes it does more lords would support Viserys with an army at his back the a targ from the same family who's dead.

he look's like a valyrian, in fact just a little thing i should mention aegon has ​Blueish purple eyes, rhaegaer had dark indigo eyes even jon con notes that his eyes are different than rhaegar's, being lighter and elia eyes certainly went purple.

But that was after being with them for 5 years, Are you telling me he never visted lys or any other place with Targ features during that time?

Aegon Does not have blueish eyes, it only looked blueish when he had blue dyed hair in front of his different hair. He's not a pure Targ that can contribute to eyes, not some long distance shenanigans switch

[JonCon's Red Beard]

1.) jon con left the gold company and cut all ties when he left to squire aegon. does it make a large difference? short answer yes it does more lords would support Viserys with an army at his back the a targ from the same family who's dead.

he look's like a valyrian, in fact just a little thing i should mention aegon has ​Blueish purple eyes, rhaegaer had dark indigo eyes even jon con notes that his eyes are different than rhaegar's, being lighter and elia eyes certainly went purple.

Viserys, Dany and Aegon have different eye colour. As far as we know, Aegon's and Viserys' eyes are in the same tone.

[Isobel Harper]

That is the confusion. I'll be short with my answer: I believe Aegon is the Son of Rhaegar because I believe it would impossible for Varys or Illyrio in their spare time to Find a child that would fit every criteria they need to replace Aegon. It would be far easier to find a replacement for Rhaenyes than Aegon

It didn't sound like that was your argument at first, but I guess you mean that given Jon has no Targaryen features despite being the son of Rhaegar, it would be even more difficult to find a legit-looking replacement.

It actually wouldn't be impossible for Varys and Illyrio to find a child to fit "the criteria" of a Targaryen child. Many people in Essos and Westeros have the stereotypical features of white/gray hair and lavendar eyes. What would be difficult would be to find a child that looks like Rhaegar, and I mean this more than in simple coloring and complexion. If Aegon looks like Rhaegar, he very well could be legit. But then again, if Aegon doesn't look like Rhaegar, he could be legit as well. :dunno:

and elia eyes certainly went purple.

According to AWoIaF wiki, Elia had "typical Martell features of dark hair and black eyes."

[Lost Melnibonean]

Aegon being a Blackfyre doesn't make sense though. This is ASOIAF. not the Tales of Dunk and Egg. The Blackfyres aren't really a part of this story.

ASOIAF and the Tales of Dunk and Egg are in the same universe, but for Aegon to be a Blackfyre, would require readers to know of the Tales of Dunk and Egg and to have read them. Him being Rhaegar's son requires nothing but the books of ASOIAF. If Martin wanted the two stories to be read as one, he would have presented them as one story. But they are clearly separate stories.

The Tales of Dunk and Egg are companions to ASOIAF. They're like easter eggs.

The Blackfyre Rebellions have been presented in the five principal novels. So has the green vs black color symbolism of the Dance of Dragons.

[kimim]

Aegon being a Blackfyre doesn't make sense though. This is ASOIAF. not the Tales of Dunk and Egg. The Blackfyres aren't really a part of this story.

ASOIAF and the Tales of Dunk and Egg are in the same universe, but for Aegon to be a Blackfyre, would require readers to know of the Tales of Dunk and Egg and to have read them. Him being Rhaegar's son requires nothing but the books of ASOIAF. If Martin wanted the two stories to be read as one, he would have presented them as one story. But they are clearly separate stories.

The Tales of Dunk and Egg are companions to ASOIAF. They're like easter eggs.

I agree, and this is why I don't believe Aegon is a BF, or the true heir, as it's too late to introduce either a true heir, or a BF, with all that history.

The Blackfyre Rebellions have been presented in the five principal novels. So has the green vs black color symbolism of the Dance of Dragons.

They're presented in such a minor way that I can't remember where, or how they were presented. Seriously, haven't these novels fragmented enough, without introducing this particular element to the mix?

[In A Coat of Gold]

I'm sorry, did I confused ya with so logical words, I'll condense it so you will understand:

People that believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre pretender has to understand that the blackfyre have been breeding within esso's population for over 80 years, there is no way after so many years and generations, a child with solid purple eyes, a full white hair kid that looks like a passable imitation of Rhaegar would be available when Varys needed him.

And remember. Aegon is 18. Young Griff is listed as 18 in aDwD. So not only would he have to look similar. He'd also have to be the exact same age.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I agree, and this is why I don't believe Aegon is a BF, or the true heir, as it's too late to introduce either a true heir, or a BF, with all that history.

They're presented in such a minor way that I can't remember where, or how they were presented. Seriously, haven't these novels fragmented enough, without introducing this particular element to the mix?

Don't worry, you can always rely on HBO's GOT to keep it simple.

[kompaya]

The claim to the IT is a subjective matter. The lords with power will decide who has the best claim. You might say tommen has the best claim, since hes been legitimized and accepted as king, or stannis as of true birth, or Aegon for being the targ in line even tho they were overthrown. They all have claims, but the one who appeals the most or convinces the men of power will have support in future conflicts. Thats how it works.

[kimim]

Don't worry, you can always rely on HBO's GOT to keep it simple.

"Complex" is not always a compliment.

[Lost Melnibonean]

"Complex" is not always a compliment.

Neither is simple.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The claim to the IT is a subjective matter. The lords with power will decide who has the best claim. You might say tommen has the best claim, since hes been legitimized and accepted as king, or stannis as of true birth, or Aegon for being the targ in line even tho they were overthrown. They all have claims, but the one who appeals the most or convinces the men of power will have support in future conflicts. Thats how it works.

Just so...

Varys smiled. "Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.

Tyrion II, Clash

[kimim]

Neither is simple.

Given the way the last two novels have devolved, I think some simplicity is in order. Huge imo here, btw :)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Given the way the last two novels have devolved, I think some simplicity is in order. Huge imo here, btw :)

I might be the only fan who doesn't want the story to end. I am hoping for four more books. Not just two.

Oh, and three more Tales of Dunk and Egg :)

[kimim]

I might be the only fan who doesn't want the story to end. I am hoping for four more books. Not just two.

Oh, and three more Tales of Dunk and Egg :)

I'd hope for that, too, but I'm starting to despair of living long enough to see the end, and I'm not very old. I should read Dunk and Egg!

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'd hope for that, too, but I'm starting to despair of living long enough to see the end, and I'm not very old. I should read Dunk and Egg!

Oh you absolutely should. The backstory is necessary to understand what the author is doing with ASOIAF. And the writing is as good if not better than in the first three novels.

[Justin Amey]

It didn't sound like that was your argument at first, but I guess you mean that given Jon has no Targaryen features despite being the son of Rhaegar, it would be even more difficult to find a legit-looking replacement.

It actually wouldn't be impossible for Varys and Illyrio to find a child to fit "the criteria" of a Targaryen child. Many people in Essos and Westeros have the stereotypical features of white/gray hair and lavendar eyes. What would be difficult would be to find a child that looks like Rhaegar, and I mean this more than in simple coloring and complexion. If Aegon looks like Rhaegar, he very well could be legit. But then again, if Aegon doesn't look like Rhaegar, he could be legit as well. :dunno:

According to AWoIaF wiki, Elia had "typical Martell features of dark hair and black eyes."

It wouldn't be difficult if you were giving him to a complete stranger native to Essos, but you are giving him to JonCon of all people, He seen Aegon as a baby, That would be last person you would to consider giving a fake to.

I agree, and this is why I don't believe Aegon is a BF, or the true heir, as it's too late to introduce either a true heir, or a BF, with all that history.

They're presented in such a minor way that I can't remember where, or how they were presented. Seriously, haven't these novels fragmented enough, without introducing this particular element to the mix?

GRRM hinted at his survival in an email since the 1st book. People would question rather Edric Storm was Aegon, Or Darkstar, Darrio, Hell even Sam of the nightwatch, or even Jon Snow. It would matter what book he was introduce in, we would still be getting all these theories about him. If he was introduce earlier his theory length would be as long as R+L=J.

And remember. Aegon is 18. Young Griff is listed as 18 in aDwD. So not only would he have to look similar. He'd also have to be the exact same age.

Finally someone one my side!!!!

[Bittertea]

I'm sorry, did I confused ya with so logical words, I'll condense it so you will understand:

People that believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre pretender has to understand that the blackfyre have been breeding within esso's population for over 80 years, there is no way after so many years and generations, a child with solid purple eyes, a full white hair kid that looks like a passable imitation of Rhaegar would be available when Varys needed him.

Who's to say that the features came from a Blackfyre. Recall that in Voltanis there is a mention of whores with purple eyes and silver hair. Therefore there are non Targs with Valyrian features.

[Justin Amey]

Who's to say that the features came from a Blackfyre. Recall that in Voltanis there is a mention of whores with purple eyes and silver hair. Therefore there are non Targs with Valyrian features.

As I said time and time again. I know there are people in Esso with Targ feature, but do know really think Varys or illyrio would One that looks like Rhaegar and is the right age. Illyrio would not know what to look for, and i know damn well Varys would have to the time. he would be as much a captive in KL from bartheon Loyalist just waiting for any excuses.