larastone Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Can you be more specific?It's hard to debate when one only has 'really boring', what was boring and why?, 'badly paced' in what way was it badly paced?, badly written in what way?, with no analysis it's just opinion.Episode 3 was just awful throughout, the tywin/tommen scene was way too long (at the end of this season I was so sick of tywin omg), then the complete atrocity that was the jaime/cersei rape scene, dany taking over mereen was cheesy and awful, unecessary Oberyn orgy scene, Sam/gilly scenes and arya/hound scenes went on for way too long.Crasters keep scenes in episode 4 were just awful, disgusting background rape scenes. Jaime scenes were meh. Margaery/tommen scene was creepy and gross. Dany scenes and night's king are the only rewatch able scenes.Episode 5, cersei scenes were good when watching the episode first time but are hard to rewatch now that it is known what her plan was from the beginning. Brienne/pod scenes are just meh, same with arya/hound scenes. Boring Crasters keep filler. Lysa scenes are a highlight tho and are very rewatchable.I feel kind of similar about episode 8 too btw, the beetles scene and sansa/Littlefinger scenes are do cheesy and hard to watch for me, the Oberyn/mountain fight was rushed etc.The only episodes of season 4 I genuinely enjoyed were 2,6,7 and 9Episodes 1 and 10 are decent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Episode 3 was just awful throughout, the tywin/tommen scene was way too long (at the end of this season I was so sick of tywin omg), then the complete atrocity that was the jaime/cersei rape scene, dany taking over mereen was cheesy and awful, unecessary Oberyn orgy scene, Sam/gilly scenes and arya/hound scenes went on for way too long.Crasters keep scenes in episode 4 were just awful, disgusting background rape scenes. Jaime scenes were meh. Margaery/tommen scene was creepy and gross. Dany scenes and night's king are the only rewatch able scenes.Episode 5, cersei scenes were good when watching the episode first time but are hard to rewatch now that it is known what her plan was from the beginning. Brienne/pod scenes are just meh, same with arya/hound scenes. Boring Crasters keep filler. Lysa scenes are a highlight tho and are very rewatchable.I feel kind of similar about episode 8 too btw, the beetles scene and sansa/Littlefinger scenes are do cheesy and hard to watch for me, the Oberyn/mountain fight was rushed etc.The only episodes of season 4 I genuinely enjoyed were 2,6,7 and 9Episodes 1 and 10 are decentI must have forgotten, what exactly was her plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daske Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Season 4 was the worst season imo. The writing truly went of the deep end here. I'm sick of these huge shockmoments taking the place of carefully crafted characters and subtle storylines. Hang on! The books are famous for having one of the biggest shock moments of any story ever written! Almost all the big show shock moments are in the books - Lysa's death, Arya's kills, Viper-Mountain reversal, Stannis arrival at the Wall, Yvette being killed, Joffrey's poisoning etc (a lot of death!). These big punchy moments aren't replacing subtle moments in either book or show, they need to be in both. There aren't that many new big shock moments added solely for the show - Brienne meeting the Hound maybe (which many fans liked anyway) and no others really that are as shocking as the ones already in the books (from what they have said they didn't intend the sept scene to be quite so 'shocking' as it appeared). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hang on! The books are famous for having one of the biggest shock moments of any story ever written! Almost all the big show shock moments are in the books - Lysa's death, Arya's kills, Viper-Mountain reversal, Stannis arrival at the Wall, Yvette being killed, Joffrey's poisoning etc (a lot of death!). These big punchy moments aren't replacing subtle moments in either book or show, they need to be in both. There aren't that many new big shock moments added solely for the show - Brienne meeting the Hound maybe (which many fans liked anyway). Duh, but the books carefully built-up those shockmoments. That's the whole point. The show only has the destinations, but it doesn't have the journeys. That's what makes it a vastly inferior product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Duh, but the books carefully built-up those shockmoments. That's the whole point. The show only has the destinations, but it doesn't have the journeys. That's what makes it a vastly inferior product. I agree that the books are way better with build-up, but I do also think that the build-up is still there in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daske Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Duh, but the books carefully built-up those shockmoments. That's the whole point. The show only has the destinations, but it doesn't have the journeys. That's what makes it a vastly inferior product. But it does have the journeys - and it has to do them in far less time and without the huge benefit of internal thoughts. Yet they have done well enough anyway to make some of the characters the most popular on television. I think you underestimate how moved or shocked some show viewers are by what happens to these characters that they have come to know and love. There are millions of viewers out there who have never heard of this site most of whom get blown away by developments on the show every week. It's not the phenomenon it is just because of cgi and bare arses. Television cannot replicate reading and does not try to. Saying it is 'vastly inferior' is like saying a spoon is vastly inferior to fork. They have similar uses but both bring something different to the table (that analogy worked out well!). Ok, we lose book Tywin but we gain show Tywin. Ok we lose book Arya but we gain show Arya. Not all work, some don't. But different takes can both can be appreciated imo and what we lose somewhat in development we gain in watching some of the best actors on TV shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 But it does have the journeys - and it has to do them in far less time and without the huge benefit of internal thoughts. Yet they have done well enough anyway to make some of the characters the most popular on television. Appeal to popularity isn't something you should use. After all, we live in a world where Michael Bay movies rake in obscene amounts of money. That's how much 'millions of viewers out there who have never heard of this site' know. It's not the phenomenon it is just because of cgi and bare arses. I would personally say that violence and shockmoments contribute just as much to the shows succes as CGI and naked women. But we agree on two out of four. That isn't bad. Television cannot replicate reading and does not try to. Saying it is 'vastly inferior' is like saying a spoon is vastly inferior to fork. They have similar uses but both bring something different to the table (that analogy worked out well!). Ok, we lose book Tywin but we gain show Tywin. Ok we lose book Arya but we gain show Arya. Not all work, some don't. But different takes can both can be appreciated imo and what we lose somewhat in development we gain in watching some of the best actors on TV shine. As to the rest of your points, I would kindly thank you not to lay words in my mouth. Never did I state that I wanted the show to replicate the books exactly. I truly hate this argument, fanboys always use it and it's just inherently wrong, but I guess it's the easy way out. Someone offers criticism, just call him a purist and tell him to piss off. I only want to consume a great story, regardless whether or not the story is told on TV or in a novel, that doesn't matter. Take the LOTR for instance. Now, the trilogy isn't a particularly great adaptation, but the movies are great in their own right. Or an even better example. Pride & Prejudice. The 2005 film isn't a great adaptation (many would say it's a terrible one), but it's a great movie in its own right. Compare that to the 1995 series, which is a great adaptation, but an incredible bore to most people who aren't diehard fans of the original novel. To slightly tweak that flawed analogy of yours. A great work of art is like a nice bowl of soup. ASOIAF is a spoon that allows me to consume that great story. GoT is indeed a forc, ill-suited for eating soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daske Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Veltigar But Michael Bay movies are panned by the critics, GoT is generally liked by the masses and professional critics. And the demographic of viewers is far wider for GoT. There is a qualitative difference most people can identify even if it can't be 'proved' by a quantitative formula or something. You'll just have to take my word that there are millions of GoT fans out there who wouldn't even know what a Megatron was. The only words I put in your mouth were 'vastly interior' because that is what you actually said. 'Television cannot replicate' reading is a statement I made to talk about why some of us appreciate the different qualities in both show and book, and I didn't quote you as saying it should replicate it. It cracks me up that you can use the word 'fanboy' as an insult while clocking up over 5000 posts on a fan site... Anyway, Happy New Year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I must have forgotten, what exactly was her plan? to manipulate the judges for tyrion's trial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 to manipulate the judges for tyrion's trial I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Duh, but the books carefully built-up those shockmoments. That's the whole point. The show only has the destinations, but it doesn't have the journeys. That's what makes it a vastly inferior product. May I ask which shock moments you feel that were not built-up or foreshadowed in the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Don't forget that scene where Jaime does something that rhyms with ape to Cersei. That was a brilliant addition. That last sentence was of course sarcasm. Just clarifying, for those who weren't tipped off by the Comic Sans MS Now that I think of it, also the scene where Jaime frees Tyrion is a bit bad. But overall, it's a good season nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 It cracks me up that you can use the word 'fanboy' as an insult while clocking up over 5000 posts on a fan site... Sigh, you clearly don't know what connotations the word 'fanboy' carries. It's also curious that you don't know that besides GoT and ASOIAF, there is a big entertainment and literature subforum on this site. That's how I got this many posts. May I ask which shock moments you feel that were not built-up or foreshadowed in the show? Best example is the Tyrion's rampage last season. there is lots more though, just check out the nitpick-without-retribution threads under each episodes subsection. There you find the best collection of complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Typer of Dorne Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Production was better and the action was more evenly spread, however it did frustrate me to hear that a lot of the books were cut because of constraints on time only to have nearly a whole episode dedicated to a completely unnecessary sub plot for the NW deserters at Crasters Keep. Doesn't happen in the books and has no baring on the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Production was better and the action was more evenly spread, however it did frustrate me to hear that a lot of the books were cut because of constraints on time only to have nearly a whole episode dedicated to a completely unnecessary sub plot for the NW deserters at Crasters Keep. Doesn't happen in the books and has no baring on the story Since Coldhands doesn't exist in the show they needed to get rid of the deserters some other way. However they could have just had Bran and co. visit Crasters and find out that all the deserters are dead. How did they die? Who knows/cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I guess what makes season 4 rewatchable for me is that the flow is pretty cinsistent. There are pretty big moments all across the 10 épisodes so that it did not feel to mle that there was a stalling moment for viewers and the déviations they made (Jon/Bran) had a definite poit to them that i found engaging: the NW had to kill their own brothers who had killed their other brothers and people are deliberately misled in thinking about that moment as a victory for the moral people when in fact it was Crows killing Crows and Bran made Hodor do a horrible thing in order to save everyone and alongside managed to unconsciously avenge Jaime Lannister of all people. I also think the charismatic performance of Pedro pascal was a joy to watch and by the end of the season we had another epic battle, which I also loved and it intouced the idea that viewers have been paying attention to the wrong spot the whole time and now the least interesting characters on the show will have the most interesting stuff to do net season. i think anticipation is a big part of why season 4 was so enjoyable of course but that does not mean that the hype alone held this thing together. I think seeing the show diverge more and more from pre-established paths is more interesting to me than seeing a 1:1 adaptation like season 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkEye Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I found most of the season painful to watch. I haven't watched it for a long time but I remember episodes 3 - 5 to be so bad that the only reason I didn't stop was because I read the books, it was just awful pretty much on every aspect. Episode 10 was a huge let down.Overall the season was the worst so far, boreing and pointless scenes, stupid dialogs, bad acting (or writing, can't decide), a lot of unused potenial. It had some wonderful scenes as well, espcially for Theon I think, but still it was pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickrs Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 arya/hound scenes went on for way too long. Kind agree there, after three scenes the "muh chicken" and "fuck the king" memes became pretty old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I just don't like episodes 3 and 5, but I love the fourth one, it set up so many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I kinda forgave episode 3 some of it's low points because of Tywin's and Davos' scenes. Episode 5 was the worst episode of the season for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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