What is it about S4 that makes it so much more watchable than S1-3?

[alcasinoroyale]

I posted in this in my review for Season 4:

I just feel like Season 4 was even lacking screen time. Compared to Season 3, the episodes were at least 5 - 10 minutes shorter which made everything seem more rushed because there wasn't enough buildup. The best episode of the season by far was The Lion and the Rose. Overall though, it just seemed like they could have added more content from A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons instead of adding more filler and condensing the shit out of those two novels into Season 5. Two Swords and The Lion and the Rose were a good start. I also wish Lady Stoneheart and the Tysha story would have been in the finale.

Jon: His storyline was a bid spread out too, I think they should have completed his ASOS arc in Season 4 and that Watchers on the Wall should been an earlier episode.

Daenerys: Her scenes in Two Swords, Breaker of Chains, and The Children were overall good, but that's really it. Emilia...please stop making the same facial expression and you act so much better when you're speaking Valyrian. Though, I think Emilia/Dany might be able to redeem herself in Season 5.

Sansa: I enjoyed her storyline this season, however the transition from her in Episode 7 to the end of Episode 8 happened way too fast. There should have been another scene or two, but I'm wondering if she was actually sewing her black dress in that scene where she told Petyr that she knows what he wants.

King's Landing: There was a lot of focus here. It was good overall, even though they spread this storyline out like Wildfire, but if Tywin's death was meant for the finale, I guess you couldn't do much. Pedro Pascal as Oberyn was amazing.

The North: Why did we only see Ramsay and Theon in 3 Episodes? Were D&D just like okay we'll show all his torture, but after that eh...who cares.

Ironborn: Yara could have at least returned back to the Iron Islands sometime in Season 4 and discover Balon to be dead and that her uncles are fighting for the position. Foreshadowing for Kingsmoot.

Arya and The Hound: For some reason, I actually liked that they spread out their storyline because Arya in Braavos in the second half of Season 4 wouldn't have the same impact as I hope it will in Season 5.

Team Dragonstone: Yes, Stannis has really been a bit neglected, yet he really didn't appear in the story between the time that Joffrey dies and him arriving at the wall, so I can't really criticize. However, I don't really like how D&D portrayed him to be overly faithful to Melisandre, especially with burning the people at the stake on the beach.

Brienne: Surprisingly I was a fan of Brienne vs. Hound, but I'm not even sure where her storyline is going if Lady Stoneheart doesn't appear.

[boojam]

I posted in this in my review for Season 4:

I just feel like Season 4 was even lacking screen time. Compared to Season 3, the episodes were at least 5 - 10 minutes shorter which made everything seem more rushed because there wasn't enough buildup.

I don't think this is true. I don't think any episode was shorter than 54 min. and Episode 10 was 66 min. long .

Season 4 was probably longer than the other seasons.

I don't know why the narrative has to be approximately average 540 min. for 10 episodes, no one has ever explained that.

I don't understand why , that this point, they don't expand to 12 episodes, they have the money for the resources.

[alcasinoroyale]

I don't think this is true. I don't think any episode was shorter than 54 min. and Episode 10 was 66 min. long .

Season 4 was probably longer than the other seasons.

I don't know why the narrative has to be approximately average 540 min. for 10 episodes, no one has ever explained that.

I don't understand why , that this point, they don't expand to 12 episodes, they have the money for the resources.

Actually Season 4 was the shortest season in terms in screen time, while Season 3 was the longest. The Laws of Gods and Men and Watchers on the Wall were also only 50 minutes. Although the reason why Season 4 was shorter is because they only adapted the last 2/5 of ASOS minus the last 2 Jon chapters and about 1/10 of AFFC and ADWD. But yeah I do agree with you on the season being expanded to 12 episodes and at this point they have a good enough budget to do that.

[Dragon in the North]

^About why they don't make it 12 episodes instead of 10, I think it's a matter of time, not money. I believe D&D have said it basically takes them all year to work on the ten episodes, and then they take a break for two weeks before working on the next season's script.

[alcasinoroyale]

^About why they don't make it 12 episodes instead of 10, I think it's a matter of time, not money. I believe D&D have said it basically takes them all year to work on the ten episodes, and then they take a break for two weeks before working on the next season's script.

Maybe Season 7 could be 12 episodes then.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Since by Season 6 winter should have engulfed Westeros they might need to shoot more and more episodes in January (and February).

[boojam]

^About why they don't make it 12 episodes instead of 10, I think it's a matter of time, not money. I believe D&D have said it basically takes them all year to work on the ten episodes, and then they take a break for two weeks before working on the next season's script.

If only Dave and Dan were doing all the show running. They now have Bryan Cogman and David Hill who they could off load a lot of work on , in fact I got the impression that Bryan has already acted as an episode supervisor besides writing episodes. It would mean adding , maybe, another shooting crew and more post production people , it would cost money, but HBO , well Time-Warner has money , indeed Time-Warner has the goose that's laying platinum eggs.

[oierem]

I don't understand why , that this point, they don't expand to 12 episodes, they have the money for the resources.

The thing is , why should they add more episodes? More is not always better.

In every single season people have complained about slow episodes, about narrative arcs being too stretched out. If you add more episodes you have a less urgent narrative, a slower pace.

Just imagine how would you structure season 4 (or any other season) with two more episodes, and assuming you have to end the season where they decided to end.

Take King's Landing for example (the bussiest story arc): the wedding needs to happen early in the season and Tyrion must kill Tywin in the finale. What would you include in two more episodes? What's needed? And how would you avoid viewers getting bored watching Tyrion in a cell?

Same with the Wall, Meereen... any other storyline. Please, try to outline how would you structure any storyline with two more episodes to fill.

I believe 10 episodes is good enough for each season, considering that even though there are multiple storylines (and often too many), you need to carry all of them through the season (not just show a major character every three or four episodes), and that the actual content of each storyline is actually not that much (the pace of the story is slow).

[Jack Bauer 24]

Since by Season 6 winter should have engulfed Westeros they might need to shoot more and more episodes in January (and February).

How would it premiere in April then?

[Guard of the Rainking]

How would it premiere in April then?

It wouldn't.

[boojam]

I believe 10 episodes is good enough for each season, considering that even though there are multiple storylines (and often too many), you need to carry all of them through the season (not just show a major character every three or four episodes), and that the actual content of each storyline is actually not that much (the pace of the story is slow).

I like slow!

Could have done with more elaboration of Stannis and Davo's dealings with the Iron Bank and how the hell they got to the Wall.

There was almost no elaboration of Mance's preparations for the assault on the Wall , actually I would have liked this in the book.

(Besides I wanted to see a caravan of giants and Mammoths!)

I think with imagination Arya and Brienne's stories would have been interesting, not Brieanne's walkabout , something different there, Arya's yeah something there.

Above all invent more interesting story for Meereen , I would have gone for that.

Pull forward the Ironborn stuff if you are going to include more than Theon.

More Bolton stuff.

Lot's of stuff could have been elaborated in S4.

Of course it would not have been comic book action , I hope we are not looking for that.

[Jack Bauer 24]

It wouldn't.

That sounds worrisome. I'd rather them just use CGI then.

[Guard of the Rainking]

That sounds worrisome. I'd rather them just use CGI then.

Well if (and that's a large if) they would still be shooting in January (and February) that might mean that the season would have more episodes than usual. I'd happily wait 2/3 more months if it meant that we'd get a longer season.

[alcasinoroyale]

If we are ever getting more than 10 Episodes for a season, it would be the last season depending on how stuff happens in A Dream of Spring that D&D want to keep in the story.

Anyway, here are two more epic tributes to the show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9phfpCxrFM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UExCrycOkhY

[boojam]

If we are ever getting more than 10 Episodes for a season, it would be the last season depending on how stuff happens in A Dream of Spring that D&D want to keep in the story.

Anyway, here are two more epic tributes to the show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9phfpCxrFM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UExCrycOkhY

Those are very well done!

Like the first one the best.

Tho both are Quick Cuttery , been in style for a long time now, little tired it.

[Velociraptor]

For me it's quite the opposite. But I can tell exactly why. Let's start with establishing the fact that I am a book reader, and have been since S1, Even though I knew what was going to happen, Seasons 1 through 3 were extremely enjoyable to watch. Why? Because they adapted the books closely enough, and what changes they did make, I felt were for the better. I dare even say that for me S1 was better than its book counterpart. Why? Because they fleshed out the characters that desperately needed some touch in the book and what they removed was generally useless and not particularly interesting filler. And that's what I think S1-S2 did best. The things they changed felt like they ADDED something noteworthy. For instance, swapping Roose with Tywin in the case of whom Arya ends up with in Harrenhall served as a GREAT character development for Tywin, in addition to Arya. Whereas Roose was developed by having him show up in Robb scenes. I felt like it was a great decision on the part of the show writers, as were most changes that happened S1 through 3, with, of course, some exceptions. But in many cases, it served to develop characters that lacked development in the books, which felt like a GREAT thing.

Enter Season 4. This is where, I believe, the show runners have started taking way too much liberties in introducing new storylines and changing things. What particularly irked me were the introductions of mini storylines that ultimately led nowhere. And it probably bothers me most because I'm a book reader, so for me, it actually took the interest out of the show- because I knew these storylines were meaningless. I knew Jon was not going to meet Bran during his mission to Craster's. I knew Asha, erm, I mean, Yara was not going to rescue Theon from Ramsay. I knew the Hound was not going to defeat Brienne. Perhaps if I was a viewer and not a reader, I'd have felt differently about it. But as a reader, it just felt like an unnecessary deviation from the source material that adds nothing of worth and, in some cases, breaks the characters. Yara, the strong woman that she is and her hardass Ironborn run from a shirtless guy and a couple of dogs? Come on, we all know book Asha would've flung her axe and taken Ramsay's fingers off before he could unlock the door. The Hound, losing in melee to Brienne, who, while indesputably good, should be nowhere near his level as a warrior? And all those extra action scenes serve to establish Jon as one of the top tiered fighters in Westeros, which he by no means should be. So yeah, Season 4 got decisively worse for me in quality. But again, perhaps if I was a viewer first and a reader second, I would have a different opinion.

[melx]

for me s04 was the worst...

maybe because i've watched first 3 seasons in one go(few days) and then waited whole year for s04...

[King Hodor IV]

season 4 was my least favorite, season 5 will hopefully most likely be better.

[giant snake]

I hope they have less pointless filler in season 5. They can expand the characters who are underrepresented in the books. I don't mean how they made Loras the typical gay joke they can always turn to when nothing else is going on. I mean more from the Sand Snakes. They can spend time showing what they do because the exposition from the books won't be there.

[alcasinoroyale]

I feel like the odd numbered seasons are better than the even number seasons if you think about it. So Season 5 should be a good season, even though it will have the most deviations from the books so far.