Ser Brandon Badwater Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I tend to agree that, within the context of human politics, morality tends to come from below, rather than from above. Get in! can i have the next question on sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Oh, Jesus :)That's cool, I guess. I am happy they decided not to stone her. But what if they had? Uh. No guarantees, I guess. What if they decided to crucify Jesus? Or stone Stephen? Or behead James? Or crucify Peter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cz99 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just like in the real world, you don't have to agree with certain customs or actions that are present in another culture, but you should be able to understand 'em. You just gotta find the right balance. Some characters are evil in both our time and theirs - and not every character's case deserves to be argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Maybe metaphorically, but a metaphorical burning or drowning don`t kill people. In England at least Replace witch with "communist" and you have the US less than 60 years ago. Sure, nobody got killed but being jailed for years still kinda sucks. Shit like that has always happened and presumably always will. In most of the world its gotten less violent, but there's still places today where people can get killed in "witch hunt"-esque events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Uh. No guarantees, I guess. What if they decided to crucify Jesus? Or stone Stephen? Or behead James? Or crucify Peter?Wait... Is that a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Some of the Dothraki are sympathetic, but some are portrayed as villainous (Jhago, Mago...). We'll see how things go in TWOW when Dany meets up with them. Well, GRRM doesn't portray every group as completely villainous or complete good either. We have people like Roslin, Olyvar, Walda and Amerei among the "good Freys". That doesnt' mean we don't thing of them as a nasty bunch. “Who is that weeping?” “Your slave Missandei.” Jhiqui had a taper in her hand. “My servant. I have no slaves.” In addition to my post above, we have another slip like this. I would not call this changing. No one changes from one day to another. Yet, her Dothrakis are able to sit at a council and discuss. I agree, but I believe that theirs is a much more realistic portrayal than the SB cultures (the criticism of catroonish, one dimentional characterization is not completely deprived of basis). The Dothraki are barbaric as a culture but from the begining they are portrayed (on an individual level) as human beings, which they certainly are. The assumption that perhaps they (or some other people) might not be just that is really bothering. We see both the Dothraki and the Ghiscari through Dany's eyes. She loves the former (but detests some of their actions) but loathes the latter. Why? To her, the Dothraki are tough, virile, and brave. The latter are vicious and decadent. Without going to deep in the topic, there is also a bit of patronising in the way we see both cultures, as the "good simple natives". The Dothraki even provide a bit of "comic relief" in Dany's arc (as they do in the show). That doesn't happen with the Slavers. I think the reason is that, despite their culture, the Dothraki kinda "accepted" Dany since the beginning, despite their cultural reluctances. First as wife of the Khal and later, as mother of dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Wait... Is that a trick question? Not really, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drekinn Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Judge by both because it's what makes fiction fun. But the fictional circumstances and customs should hold more weight imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Judge by both because it's what makes fiction fun. But the fictional circumstances and customs should hold more weight imo. So should you throw dwarfs into the sea as the old gods teach? Or should you spare them as the "pious fools" in the Faith of the Seven teach? It seems to me that something vaguely resembling what is misnamed "modern" morality does indeed exist in Westeros. It's just that nobody wants to acknowledge it, in part because of where it comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 So should you throw dwarfs into the sea as the old gods teach? Or should you spare them as the "pious fools" in the Faith of the Seven teach? It seems to me that something vaguely resembling what is misnamed "modern" morality does indeed exist in Westeros. It's just that nobody wants to acknowledge it, in part because of where it comes from.You are trying to say that R'hllor is the Christian God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 You are trying to say that R'hllor is the Christian God? Huh? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Huh? No.Well, don't be shy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well, don't be shy. I don't know what you want me to say. A lot of fans make no secret of their deep dislike of the Faith of the Seven. I suspect these are the same people who ignore the Faith of the Seven when they claim that nothing resembling "modern" morality exists in Westeros. But the Faith of the Seven is where we see so-called "modern" morality vaguely replicated. It inspired Baelor to try to teach the the high to treat the lowly as equals. It inspired Lancel to accept common folk as his "friends". It opposes the murder of the crippled and deformed. It is the inspiration for the one non-castrated military force on the planet that is not widely known for raping women. It is the source and inspiration for the vows of knighthood, that hold that the strong should defend the weak, and hence that might does not make right. The Faith of the Seven is not identical to Christianity. It is a cross between medieval Christianity and new-age hippy humanism and feminism, complete with the "Maiden, Mother and Crone" of neo-pagan goddess worship. It is probably George's ideal fantasy religion (with a few warts for realism's sake). It is loosely based on medieval Christianity, but it is, if anything, even more "modern". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 But Christianity is not about fun and frolic, it's about Jesus. Who would that be if not Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Eh, if you tried to judge all the characters in this medieval setting by today's morality the vast majority would be incarcerated or in the loony bin. The morals in Westerosi society haven't evolved to today's standards. The difference is a part of what makes the setting interesting to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternET Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well I'd say our "modern moral standard", actualy is based on context. So no, we can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 But Christianity is not about fun and frolic, it's about Jesus. Who would that be if not Azor Ahai.The religion of Rh'llor is a dualistic religion, analogous to the Manichaean and Zoroastrian religions, except that in real life these religions were not associated with human sacrifice, as far as I know. There is no contradiction between Christianity and fun and frolic. Jesus would be anyone but Azor Ahai. Jesus is associated with self-sacrifice. Azor Ahai and the religion of Rh'llor are about the sacrifice of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 ^High Sparrow is such a feminist :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 But Christianity is not about fun and frolic, it's about Jesus. Who would that be if not Azor Ahai. Christ sacrificed himself. Azor Ahai sacrificed his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I don't know what you want me to say. A lot of fans make no secret of their deep dislike of the Faith of the Seven. I suspect these are the same people who ignore the Faith of the Seven when they claim that nothing resembling "modern" morality exists in Westeros. But the Faith of the Seven is where we see so-called "modern" morality vaguely replicated. It inspired Baelor to try to teach the the high to treat the lowly as equals. It inspired Lancel to accept common folk as his "friends". It opposes the murder of the crippled and deformed. It is the inspiration for the one non-castrated military force on the planet that is not widely known for raping women. It is the source and inspiration for the vows of knighthood, that hold that the strong should defend the weak, and hence that might does not make right. The Faith of the Seven is not identical to Christianity. It is a cross between medieval Christianity and new-age hippy humanism and feminism, complete with the "Maiden, Mother and Crone" of neo-pagan goddess worship. It is probably George's ideal fantasy religion (with a few warts for realism's sake). It is loosely based on medieval Christianity, but it is, if anything, even more "modern".The faith is a pagan religion. It is a pantheon ,an archetypal Jungian one based on the Greek/ roman gods. Mars is the warrior, Aphrodite the maiden, etc. The notion of chivalry predates medieval Christianity in concept, the idea of a warrior lord who protects the people. The faith makes no mention of Jesus specific teaching as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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