JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I don't find it inexplicable; it's the factor that made me appreciate Jaime originally. I think it's him walking the talk. Part of him knows he did the right thing, but part of him still wants to be Arthur Dayne and is ever conscious of breaking his oath, w/e the cause. So it gives him fuel to hold everyone else in contempt for judging him, but it's also reflective of his contempt for himself and his situation. He doesn't give a shit about what people think in the here and now, but he does care about how he'll be viewed in posterity, which is an interesting contradiction. I don't think it's healthy, but I think it's 3 dimensional. It's not only that he didn't give a shit. As I kinda tried to say in the PSTD thread, that is the ONE MOMENT that broke Jaime. Not the murders, the killings, the war... the fact that he killed Aerys and he couldn't protect the babies and failed Rhaegar. That's why he doesn't talk about it. Because he doesn't want to be faced with such a traumatic moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think all of them would have stopped him, but none would have killed him. Rossart was a goner for sure, but the White Bull and Barristan would have knocked the king and confined him to his quarters while they rallied the defenders of the city. All of them, knowing Tywin for years would have never opened the doors. Even if they trusted Tywin, every one of them would have died protecting Maegor's once the sacking started, Barristan, Hightower and Dayne would be more than happy to cut Tywin and his dogs to pieces instead of killing the king and allowing the butchering of Elia. Dayne and Hightower kept their vows to the bitter end, had they been in KL, the history of House Lannister could be very different.You seem to have the time line wrong, he orders the city to be burned after the Sack begins and Tywin's forces are in the city. It doesn't matter if they trust Tywin, Aerys is king and he orders the gates opened. 6 men aren't going to change the loyalists fortunes either, Tywin will lose more men but he'll still win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 You seem to have the time line wrong, he orders the city to be burned after the Sack begins and Tywin's forces are in the city. It doesn't matter if they trust Tywin, Aerys is king and he orders the gates opened. 6 men aren't going to change the loyalists fortunes either, Tywin will lose more men but he'll still win. So very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's not only that he didn't give a shit. As I kinda tried to say in the PSTD thread, that is the ONE MOMENT that broke Jaime. Not the murders, the killings, the war... the fact that he killed Aerys and he couldn't protect the babies and failed Rhaegar. That's why he doesn't talk about it. Because he doesn't want to be faced with such a traumatic moment.I see it more as an erosion rather than a tipping point, but either way I agree failng Rhaegar...and especially with the complication of failng him to the benefit of Tywin...is something that haunts him, absolutely. I think it's what closed the door on ever becoming Lord of CR in his mind; it would seem too much like a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I see it more as an erosion rather than a tipping point, but either way I agree failng Rhaegar...and especially with the complication of failng him to the benefit of Tywin...is something that haunts him, absolutely. I think it's what closed the door on ever becoming Lord of CR in his mind; it would seem too much like a profit. Could be. Something like "ok, I could get out of this for good now" and leave all of that behind and find some solace with a wife and kids of his own. Yet, he decides to stay because he's both atoning and punishing himself, and numbs himself with Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Could be. Something like "ok, I could get out of this for good now" and leave all of that behind and find some solace with a wife and kids of his own. Yet, he decides to stay because he's both atoning and punishing himself, and numbs himself with Cersei.Right. I think specifically after losing his hand/fighting ability, Jaime without that history is more amenable to practical considerations and the idea of a path chosen for you rather than of your choosing, but because of that past it's entirely out of the question for him. As you say, atonement, punishment, numbing himself, with a slight nod to how it would look to history if he benefits from House Lannister's betrayal. I think he fights to protect his house/family without any qualms because it fits into his romantic ideal and his cynical perspective both, but personally profiting from his House's post-sacking gains would be an affront to the former and all too neat for the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 They would do nothing ,They didn't do anything while Rhaella was being raped ,they didn't do anything when Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and they didn't do anything when Aerys slaughtered the north men . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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