Spoilery about Targaryen End Game?

[Ser Pounce FTW]

The thread asking about the yet to be published Fire and Blood as well as the recent publishing of the World of Ice and Fire has got me thinking. Both of these "historical reference" books feature the Targaryens more than any of the other great houses. Is this spoilery for the fact that the Targaryens are the most important family in Westeros and that a Targaryen - either the secret one in the North or the one with the dragons - will be the last king/queen standing?

We begin the story with the Starks, which makes me assume they're the family we should be focused on. Of course, that could still support Jon being the king we're meant to root for (if we're meant to root for any of them!) But Martin's goal for breaking with traditional tropes works against the secret prince becoming king and triumphing over adversity so I've been expecting his story not to end with him being crowned and ruling wisely for decades.

Then there's Dany who starts off as a fugitive married against her will but grabs the stallion and becomes queen. Is she the one we're meant to root for? It's hard to say given that there seem to be an awful lot of indicators that she won't survive the series. I believed the Targaryens had lost the throne for good but with all these encyclopedias featuring their history so prominently, I'm wondering if I've been misled by the great Martin.

I suppose my biggest confusion comes from the fact that there are great families that have long, deep roots in Westeros yet they received only a few pages in the current unofficial reference book. Fair enough, it's written by a maester and would feature the ruling family prominently but shouldn't there at least be more history on the Arryns and Starks given their origins and longevity? And the official reference book is going to be called Fire and Blood? Not something more neutral? Is Martin nudging us, not ungently, to the most important family of Westeros by these other publications? And does this mean anything for the outcome of the series?

Anyone else wondering if they've ruled out the Targs too soon?

Disclaimer: I'm well aware that this tale is about more than the Iron Throne but I'm sure there will be those who feel the need to point it out to me any way.

[The Bastard of Walton]

I personally think the Targs will end up on the throne.

Jon I think will be offered the throne (totally convinced R+L=J) but that he will turn it down. I believe the Watch will still need to be kept & he will refuse to break his vows.

Dany I think will survive, i think she will fall in love with Jon (I understand this is unpopular), but will marry Aegon out of duty.

Aegon is the Targ that will cement them on the throne again, with Dany of course. He comes into the story to late for some people, plus the Blackfyre possibility is hanging in the background (Personally the Blackfyre link seems like a well placed false trail to me). Dany marrys Aegon out of duty, the Targ Dynasty is returned.

[Leonardo]

If you think it's more likely that aegon is a targ than blackfyre you are really deluding yourself or not paying attention

[Howling Mad]

The non-cannon books spend time with the Targaryen's because they are the ruling power. No more no less. Beside GRRM is not trying to subvert tropes as much as improve upon traditional storytelling.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

If you think it's more likely that aegon is a targ than blackfyre you are really deluding yourself or not paying attention

Well, a Blackfyre is technically a Targaryen.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The Targaryens had been the ruling family for 300 years and had roots in Valyria for eons before that. Pretty much every major event in recent Westerosi history touches on them in some way. Is it all that shocking that they would be the focus of a lot of supplementary material?

[Leonardo]

Well, a Blackfyre is technically a Targaryen.

From a bastard line stretching 150 years back

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

Mothers matter too.

Basically all the main characters have some Targ blood. There's hundreds of loose ends on the Targ tree - and this is how feudal systems work, nobles breed with nobles.

The Targs were the ruling family name in Westeros for 300 years and part of the ruling class of Essos for 5000 years before that. So yea they're pretty important.

If you think it's more likely that aegon is a blackfyre than targ you are really deluding yourself or not paying attention

FTFY

[Summer Is Coming!]

Fire and Blood was only recently announced as a potential "history" by Martin. Some of this potential is due to the Targaryen presence defining the 300 years before AGOT. However, some of it is probably due to reader interest in the Targaryens with their magic, dragons, and devil may care attitudes. The World Book showed that there were a great number of interesting events throughout each region of Westeros from the First Men through the Targaryen reigns. We have references to many interesting events at the Wall itself.

With all that in mind, how many readers would be interested in a series of stories about the Long Night, Night's King, Nymeria's conquest of 6 Dornish kings, or even something like the Collected Journals and Poems of Oberyn Martell? I don't think the fact that Martin has recently started talking about releasing a book that details the Targaryen reigns is evidence that they are the end game for the novels, just that there are interesting stories to tell.

[Hos the Hostage]

I have no guesses as to who will end up on the Iron Throne, though my personal favorite for the job is Jon. The supplementary materials are about the history of Westeros, which was ruled by Targaryens, so naturally they get the maximum importance. The fact that they have dragons adds the advantage of magical elements in the story.

But if you are asking who to root for, I think Martin wants the readers to be divided on that. If there is a certain somebody we are 'supposed to root for', then this becomes just another fantasy tale. When I read LOTR, I know Sauron is the bad guy, nothing is written from his perspective to make me feel sympathetic towards him. But here, except for Euron and Ramsay, no one else is so downright evil. First I thought Lannisters are the villains, except for Tyrion. Then we see the stroy from their point of view, and starts to like them (sometimes fiercely). There are several other examples.

I would not mind if House Targaryen makes a full fledged come back, but the possibility of other equally probable claimants makes the story interesting, IMO. You'd think Dany has dragons, she has to all but land in Westeros to gain power(at least i thought so in the end of first book), but we know that is not the case. Other than Dany, Jon, or Aegon (Targs assuming R+L=J), Stannis, Sansa, LF, Shireen, Edric Storm - any of them could be sitting the Iron Throne in the end.

[Hos the Hostage]

With all that in mind, how many readers would be interested in a series of stories about the Long Night, Night's King, Nymeria's conquest of 6 Dornish kings, or even something like the Collected Journals and Poems of Oberyn Martell?

I'd love to have a look at that. :)

But seriously, I'm more interested in the story of Long Night and the Night's King than the Targaryen history.

[Summer Is Coming!]

I'd love to have a look at that. :)

But seriously, I'm more interested in the story of Long Night and the Night's King than the Targaryen history.

I'm with you on the Long Night and Night's King, though I suspect we may find out more between Jon and Bran in the next books.

After that episode in a Game of Thrones where Oberyn tells Cersei he was writing a poem to his daughter I started hoping that Oberyn secretly composed a batch of haikus and lyrics over the years even though there is no textual basis. Martin certainly imbued the Red Viper with Christopher Marlowe's concept of the "mighty line", and it would be neat to have his voice on the page again.

[shadow282]

If you think it's more likely that aegon is a targ than blackfyre you are really deluding yourself or not paying attention

If you think there's any evidence of Aegon being a Blackfyre then you're definitely deluding yourself.

[Leonardo]

If you think there's any evidence of Aegon being a Blackfyre then you're definitely deluding yourself.

-Illyrio foreshadowing

-clanky Dragon analogy

-golden company supporting Aegon

-unlikeliness of escape from KL

-The fact there already is a son of Rhaegar walking around

-miles of backstory on the cadet branch of House targaryen

-mummers Dragon prophecy

Against

- word of a known bullshitter

[Ser Pounce FTW]

The Targaryens had been the ruling family for 300 years and had roots in Valyria for eons before that. Pretty much every major event in recent Westerosi history touches on them in some way. Is it all that shocking that they would be the focus of a lot of supplementary material?

Yes, the Targaryens have been ruling for 300 years but the Starks have ruled for 8000! I guess I'm surprised that a history book has such a huge focuses on the monarchs and not nearly as much on the individual regions and wondering if we should see that as indication of which family is considered the important one.

With all that in mind, how many readers would be interested in a series of stories about the Long Night, Night's King, Nymeria's conquest of 6 Dornish kings, or even something like the Collected Journals and Poems of Oberyn Martell? I don't think the fact that Martin has recently started talking about releasing a book that details the Targaryen reigns is evidence that they are the end game for the novels, just that there are interesting stories to tell.

I'd wager to say many readers are interested in the magic that went into creating the Wall as well as the myths of the Long Night and Night's King. I had hoped to hear more from in the upcoming official history book. So I was really surprised to hear it would be called Fire and Blood which indicates a continued focus on the Targs and not a more balanced look at the rest of the amazing history of Westeros.

[Bronn Urgandy]

I think its basically because in 300 years House Targaryen has managed more large scale mouth breathing stupidity than every other House in their thousands of years of history combined. Makes for good reading, the inbred, arrogant God wannabes causing carnage.

[Acnologia Targaryen]

Well do you expect they are the family that created the united westeros and have a hand in everything that happened during that time of course they will get the focus.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

Mothers matter too.

Basically all the main characters have some Targ blood. There's hundreds of loose ends on the Targ tree - and this is how feudal systems work, nobles breed with nobles.

The Targs were the ruling family name in Westeros for 300 years and part of the ruling class of Essos for 5000 years before that. So yea they're pretty important.

FTFY

*Coughcough* Tyrion(don't believe Aerys is his father), Arya, Bran, Sansa, Jaime, Theon *coughcough*

Yes, the Targaryens have been ruling for 300 years but the Starks have ruled for 8000! I guess I'm surprised that a history book has such a huge focuses on the monarchs and not nearly as much on the individual regions and wondering if we should see that as indication of which family is considered the important one.

I'd wager to say many readers are interested in the magic that went into creating the Wall as well as the myths of the Long Night and Night's King. I had hoped to hear more from in the upcoming official history book. So I was really surprised to hear it would be called Fire and Blood which indicates a continued focus on the Targs and not a more balanced look at the rest of the amazing history of Westeros.

Well, the World book made it clear that the Starks tend to remain in the North and are rarely interested in the politics of the South. The Targaryens on the other hand, had ruled most of the realm for almost 300 years and made the 7 kingdoms into one. Add this to the fact that the Targaryens had more unrest in their kingdom than the Starks did and characters like Aegon IV, Maegor, it's not surprising that some think that the Targaryens make for more interesting reading.

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

*Coughcough* Tyrion(don't believe Aerys is his father), Arya, Bran, Sansa, Jaime, Theon *coughcough*

Excellent list of characters with probable Targaryen blood.

[binhorde]

Well you bring up an interesting point. George said at the 92Y Q&A he did in October to promote The World of Ice and Fire that he wrote 300,000 words for that book, most of it being about the Targaryens and most of it being edited out. And that you will see all that edited out stuff about the Targaryens in a more comprehensive book released once the series is over. Certainly that seems to lend credence to the idea a Targaryen winds up on the throne when A Song of Ice and Fire is complete.