Winterfell should be the capital of the 7K

[Khal Shaggydog]

Wth, that's some high pot crackpot

Thanks Squire.

Its not crackpot, because its not an alternate theory about events in the past. Its a projection of an alternate idea of how things could have evolved following RR, or a basis of a future idea that doesnt contemplate Tommen and Margary working out, or Dany simply returning to Westeros and marrying her nephew, or LF surviving a growing list of people that want him dead on sight.

[Warrewal Halfaxe]

^Maybe, but I was referring to the title. Why Winterfell of all places? So far, so lonely, so cold. It woul take evwn longer to get anything done.

[The Wolves]

Plus, I'm pretty sure the south gives more support to the Wall than the North.

They don't. In the world book the Maester stated that the Wall is still standing because of the Northern lords giving them food and men. Everytime the wall needed help they looked to the the Northern lords.

[Boarsbane]

Thats kind of the point. They are isolated and therefore outside the cesspool of corruption and petty politics of the more shortsighted and power hungry houses. The realm supports them, because they provide strong leadership and prioritize the defense of the realm over their own glory. You get someone like Cersei or Mace Tyrell this close to seizing monarchy, and you can see how the system is set up to fail.

You must buy into the Northern super race BS. They can be just as petty, treacherous, and vicious as their southern counterparts. The North doesn't have the strength to control the other Kingdoms, and there isn't a single region that would submit to the Starks after Robert's Rebellion, nor should they. If you want strong leadership the West and Reach are both more powerful than the North and have more in common with their neighbors.

[Lee-Sensei]

Federal as in the pertaining to the entire continent of Westeros. And yes, I am aware that this is beyond the current conception of how Westeros is currently governed, this would be an idea for progress, just as Aegon conquering and uniting the 7K was a notion towards progress as well. Change happens, and out of disorder. Eddard Stark had an opportunity to change a system that had failed to works since the dragons died out, both by his lineage and his personal connections, and by his unique, in this world, sense of what a leader should be concerned with.

I am aware this is a break in the traditions of Westeros as it stood at the end of RR. I am also aware that Eddard was an infinitely better ruler of people than Robert ever was or could be. Since he didnt crave power, he would be most appropriate to wield it.

I am not suggesting that the capital up and move now, where we are at in the story. I am suggesting that Winterfell would have made a better capital of the continent post-Targaryens.

Jon Arryns probably as good as Ned if not better. More experienced too with as many connections as Ned. Tywins probably better than Ned, albeit without Neds connections. Hoster Tullys another one. All three have ancient seats far away from the Wall.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

. I am suggesting that Winterfell would have made a better capital of the continent post-Targaryens.

Why?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

They don't. In the world book the Maester stated that the Wall is still standing because of the Northern lords giving them food and men. Everytime the wall needed help they looked to the the Northern lords.

Of course they do, but at the same time it is the North that gets the most benefit from the Watch. It would be silly for Dorne or the Stromlands to offer the same support as the North does.

[Khal Shaggydog]

Like all that stuff Robert gone done from KL?

The point is they rule from a secure location that cannot be assaulted by any of their own vassals. They rule through their trusted captains, in the Vale, Riverrun, Dorne, and Storms End. Oldtown had no direct tie to the Baratheons but caused no problem (that we know of) in the years since Robert took over. We have no reason to think they would do otherwise if an actually responsible ruler was in charge.

[Lee-Sensei]

They don't. In the world book the Maester stated that the Wall is still standing because of the Northern lords giving them food and men. Everytime the wall needed help they looked to the the Northern lords.

Maybe in the past. They haven't done much lately.

[Khal Shaggydog]

Jon Arryns probably as good as Ned if not better. More experienced too with as many connections as Ned.

Old man with weak seed. He supported Robert, and you think he wouldnt support Ned? He knew better than anyone that Ned was the more responsible lord. And not the same connections at all, especially when you consider what Ned's son would represent, as the grandson of Riverrun and Stark in Winterfell.

[Lee-Sensei]

Old man with weak seed. He supported Robert, and you think he wouldnt support Ned? He knew better than anyone that Ned was the more responsible lord. And not the same connections at all, especially when you consider what Ned's son would represent, as the grandson of Riverrun and Stark in Winterfell.

So? Even if Jon didn't have a son, it could pass to a cousin. Robert got support because he was charismatic and had Targ blood through his grandmother. Ned supported Robert, but wouldn't support Jon?

If Jon had a son, he would also be the grandson of a Tully and an Arryn. So hisconnections are as strong if not stronger. What about Hoster and Tywin?

[Khal Shaggydog]

Well, none of that has anything to do with the rest of my post. Its about the fitness of Winterfell and the Starks to be overlord monarchs of Westeros, since they have a strong pre-disposition for justly ruling people, and protecting them from larger, outside threats. Winterfell is a strong capital that could withstand attack from the South by the defense of Moat Cailin, and is close enough to the Wall to actually defend it if need be. Ned had an opportunity following the Sack of KL to seize power and change the orientation of power from one location to another, for the greater good of the larger realm. Like power changing seats from a Norman base to a British base. Without a channel in between.

[Dragon's Daughter]

You want the capital city to be away from the biggest threat. Being next to the Wall is a major drawback to Winterfell. Additionally, you want to be ruled by a majority supported group in terms of race, religion, etc to minimize opposition. You see this in the real world as well. Canada’s capital was specifically chosen as NOT Toronto due to proximity to the US, which was seen as the biggest threat due to the gigantic army at the end of the Civil War. Russia’s capital moved from St. Petersburg because it was too easy to get to for other European nations with naval power. Being near the Wall, especially with a long winter coming, is a bad decision.

This is not to get into the drawbacks of putting a capital in an area that cannot provide its own food for years on end, especially if there is an influx of southron lords if the capitol changes. It is much easier to move supplies to King’s Landing than Winterfell and it is easier for the King to be a presence when he is not in the middle of nowhere.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Well, none of that has anything to do with the rest of my post. Its about the fitness of Winterfell and the Starks to be overlord monarchs of Westeros, since they have a strong pre-disposition for justly ruling people, and protecting them from larger, outside threats. Winterfell is a strong capital that could withstand attack from the South by the defense of Moat Cailin, and is close enough to the Wall to actually defend it if need be. Ned had an opportunity following the Sack of KL to seize power and change the orientation of power from one location to another, for the greater good of the larger realm. Like power changing seats from a Norman base to a British base. Without a channel in between.

Winterfell is a good capital for the North, not so much for the rest of Westeros. The majority of the population and resources are all in the South, why would they want to be governed by someone thousands of miles away?

[The Wolves]

Maybe in the past. They haven't done much lately.

I still think that 8000 years of support is still very worthy of recognition.

I doubt the South while fighting for control before the dragons took over were very much concerned with the Wall only giving them men when they had defeated them in battle.

[Lee-Sensei]

Well, none of that has anything to do with the rest of my post. Its about the fitness of Winterfell and the Starks to be overlord monarchs of Westeros, since they have a strong pre-disposition for justly ruling people, and protecting them from larger, outside threats. Winterfell is a strong capital that could withstand attack from the South by the defense of Moat Cailin, and is close enough to the Wall to actually defend it if need be. Ned had an opportunity following the Sack of KL to seize power and change the orientation of power from one location to another, for the greater good of the larger realm. Like power changing seats from a Norman base to a British base. Without a channel in between.

Well then your argument is built on a faulty premise. The idea that the Starks are good by nature is part of the Northern master race myth. The Starks are just like all of the other houses.

To avoid attacks? I'd think Sunspear would be the best as its far away from the Wall. Casterly Rock and the Eyrie are also good choices.

[Lee-Sensei]

I still think that 8000 years of support is still very worthy of recognition.

I doubt the South while fighting for control before the dragons took over were very much concerned with the Wall only giving them men when they had defeated them in battle.

Thelittledragonthatcould is right. It makes sense for the north to provide the most for the Wall since they're the ones in most danger if the others attack.

[Khal Shaggydog]

You want the capital city to be away from the biggest threat. Being next to the Wall is a major drawback to Winterfell. Additionally, you want to be ruled by a majority supported group in terms of race, religion, etc to minimize opposition. You see this in the real world as well. Canada’s capital was specifically chosen as NOT Toronto due to proximity to the US, which was seen as the biggest threat due to the gigantic army at the end of the Civil War. Russia’s capital moved from St. Petersburg because it was too easy to get to for other European nations with naval power.

So Kingslanding is a good place?

You dont guard yourself well from the Long Night and White Walkers by being further south. They bring winter with them, so a desert would be the worst possible place to be. You want to be in a place girded against winter, with a history of fighting winter and a cold threat, with the allegiance of acutal direwolves, a history of communication with the COTF. You also need to head the threat off, and if WInterfell falls, they can fall back to the neck and at least funnel them into as small a place as possible.

[Boarsbane]

So Kingslanding is a good place?

You dont guard yourself well from the Long Night and White Walkers by being further south. They bring winter with them, so a desert would be the worst possible place to be. You want to be in a place girded against winter, with a history of fighting winter and a cold threat, with the allegiance of acutal direwolves, a history of communication with the COTF. You also need to head the threat off, and if WInterfell falls, they can fall back to the neck and at least funnel them into as small a place as possible.

Not even the mighty Northmen are suspecting an invasion from the Others after RR. It would be insane for them to factor in an enemy almost no one believes exist when picking a capitol.

[Khal Shaggydog]

Not even the mighty Northmen are suspecting an invasion from the Others after RR. It would be insane for them to factor in an enemy almost no one believes exist when picking a capitol.

Thats part of the OP. The Starks keep repeating that line, so its either them being a muttering insane worry wort, or they should start heading their own words, starting with Ned himself when he has the chance to actually take that step. Sanity is a pretty fluid concept in this world.