Jon and Arya, Star Crossed Lovers

[Baldwin Lannister]

I have been thinking about it a lot lately, and I'm pretty confident that Jon is Azore Ahai and Arya is ultimately his Nissa Nissa. I was browsing some theories and I came across some new stuff that helps things click into place.

The legend goes something along the lines of this: Azore Ahai is the good guy who is going to win against the bad guys, and he needs his magic sword to do it. He makes the magic sword by driving thru the chest of his love, who opens her arms and embraces her fate.

Some people question if Jon can fulfill this role, as he already watched his girlfriend die. However, she was just a fling. His true love is actually Arya, and there are so many clues to support it.

Read their interactions growing up, and how Jon gifts Arya needle. They are very affectionate to each other, and are still thinking about each other and missing each other.

Also, consider this: Assuming R+L=J. Arya is described as not only looking like Lyana, but acting like her as well. Lyana was something of a tomboy, which is probably what drew Rhaegar to her. Jon is Rhaegar's son, we think he gets his natural talents and leadership from his stark raising, but Rhaegar was also described as being much the same way from a young age. If The son is like the father and the daughter is like the mother, then there is a pretty good chance they are going to be attracted to one another too. And you know how those Targarians are about incest, it’s the preferred choice.

Finally, I read someone pointing out the fact that Jon didn't abandon the Nights Watch when Ned died. He didn't when Rob died. But as soon as he got the news that Mance was captured, he threw down to go and save his "Sister".

But Jon's dead? No, he's going to Warg into ghost and then the fire priest is going to use her fire magic to bring him back. Because he was warging instead of ????? that Dondarrion was experiencing his resurrection with be something different.

Why would Jon do that though? Why kill Arya?
This is where the speculation gets heavier. The best theory I can come up with is that they will fight without realizing who they are fighting. Jon has changed pretty good, and Arya is learning how to change her face. That being said, there seems to be a heavy undertone of Fire vs Ice for the ultimate fate of the world. If Jon is Fire, then Arya is Ice. The faceless men do not seem to be interested in normal affairs of the world, and only concern themselves with death. They have more in common with the stranger and the others ect ect than R'hollor ect.

When GRRM says that the dragons are the only things that can defeat the white walkers, you might not want to see people obsessed with death sniffing around the only copy of dragonlore. If the situation escalates and the faceless men DO reveal do be working to further the interests of the others, then they may send Arya after Jon. If she changes her face He won't recognize her. Neither will she, and they will fight. It will be an epic battle of fire and ice and ultimately, Arya will realize she's on the wrong side and let Jon kill her. It’s epic and magic and now Jon can win the war. GRRM Did say that the ending to the story would be Bitter sweet and Jon killing Arya to win the war would fit the bill.
IDK, like I said there is a lot of speculation. I can't really say what will happen in the end, but if the legend of Azor Ahai is legit, then its defiantly Jon. and Jon defiantly loves Arya. And that means trouble.

[Kyoshi]

Some people question if Jon can fulfill this role, as he already watched his girlfriend die. However, she was just a fling. His true love is actually Arya, and there are so many clues to support it.

Read their interactions growing up, and how Jon gifts Arya needle. They are very affectionate to each other, and are still thinking about each other and missing each other.

I thought this was where you lost me. But then the quoted below happened.

And you know how those Targarians are about incest, it’s the preferred choice.

[King Tyrion XX]

Wait so now Arya is a Targ too?

[I S**t Gold]

The relationship between Arya and Jon is interesting. I definitely think their interactions at Winterfell had the feel of a budding romance and then circumstances get in the way. By Westerosi standards I'm not sure it would be a problem for cousins to marry. So it wouldn't qualify as incest necessarily.

So I do like Arya as a candidate for Nissa Nissa (if there has to be a Nissa Nissa). Although the point of this is that it should be a considerable sacrifice which leads me to disagree with your mistaken identity theory. (I also kind of like the Alt Shift X suggestion that Dany and Jon could be halves of AA and maybe they both have their nissa nissa.) Maybe the answer to why would Jon kill Arya is another question. Why would Jon kill Qhorin Halfhand?

His arc so far has been about Jon learning his personal loyalties are not always compatible with his vows. This might be the ultimate test of his commitment to honour.

[Black Crow]

And have we read GRRM's 1993 synopsis?

[WhiteWind]

this is pretty interesting theory. not saying i believe in it, but i did happen to read an article talking about grrm's original outline for the story, and in it he originally wanted there to be a triangle between jon, arya, and tyrion lannister. tyrion fell in love with arya, but she was repulsed and ended up having feelings for jon.

obviously it would be strange for tyrion to fall for arya, especially given his geographical location, age, belief in her being m.i.a./dead. but it might be interesting if grrm kept that first notion of arya and jon's feelings for each other as he developed the story.

[King Tyrion XX]

And Braavos is just a stones throw away from Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.

[Arya Targaryen]

I do think that Jon will end up with Arya as his Queen. There are indeed many clues in the text to support Jon/Arya. However, I understand why people object this (though I disagree with them).

And Targs are not into incest genetically. They do it to keep the bloodline pure, as a political tool.

[Black Crow]

And why should she be his Queen?

The synopsis very clearly implies that they will eventually get it on, but neither Azor Ahai nor the return of the King cliche feature in either synopsis; the story is about the Starks and the Lannisters.

[Arya Targaryen]

And why should she be his Queen?

The synopsis very clearly implies that they will eventually get it on, but neither Azor Ahai nor the return of the King cliche feature in either synopsis; the story is about the Starks and the Lannisters.

My Jon/Arya idea does not come from the synopsis, I've been saying it for the last 3 years or so, based on the books. There is plenty of foreshadowing, but I will mention only two, which may hint at Arya becoming queen. I dont have the exact quotes now, but basically:

1. Sansa tells Arya that one day she will become Joffrey's queen and Arya will have to call her your grace or something like that. When I first read that, even before I realized R+L, I thought that it will be Arya, who becomes queen, not Sansa. Poetic justice.

2. And after that Ned tells Arya that she will marry a king - and at this point there is no other king as Joff, and Sansa is bethrothed to him. Obviously Arya thinks it's Sansa, but then again, I've always taken it as a sign.

The third bit is just a theory, but I wouldnt exclude Arya becoming the younger, beautiful queen from Cersei's profecy. Again, poetic justice. By the time Arya gets back to Westeros, she will be about as old as Lyanna was at Harrenhal. And considering Lyanna was the one who stole both men's heart Cersei wanted, it would be awesome if Arya (looking like Lyanna did) took everything from her.

[Black Crow]

My hat comes off to your picking up on the Jon-Arya business before anybody else, but my scepticism is not concerning Arya or the possibility of her marrying Jon, but rather in doubting Jon's eventual kingship. I dare say its possible that just as the wildlings were pledging fealty to him, he might in time become King in the North, but the synopsis appears to firmly rule against becoming a Targaryen king sitting atop the Iron Throne.

[Arya Targaryen]

My hat comes off to your picking up on the Jon-Arya business before anybody else, but my scepticism is not concerning Arya or the possibility of her marrying Jon, but rather in doubting Jon's eventual kingship. I dare say its possible that just as the wildlings were pledging fealty to him, he might in time become King in the North, but the synopsis appears to firmly rule against becoming a Targaryen king sitting atop the Iron Throne.

I'm not sure either. I definitely would prefer Jon Snow as KITN with Arya Stark as his wife and Queen, and their children would be Starks as well. Or Jon taking the Stark name from Arya (like he gave her the sword - she will give him the name - there was a conversation between the two of them while they were watching Bran and Tommen sparring) But for that to happen, Rickon should die first (which may happen - that would make Rickon's story a shaggy dog story, which is quite fitting.) And Bran must stay in the cave, and Sansa - she may just don't care for inheritance as she is fed up with all those men who wants to marry her because of her claim. And she was disinherited by Robb anyway.

But I'm not ruling out Jon sitting on the IT in the end - but I doubt that he will take the name "Targaryen". He will stay Snow, I think. (I didn't always though so - I though that Jon will become Jon Targaryan, and Arya will marry him, so she will become Arya Targaryen - hence my nickname here.)

[Black Crow]

Yes I have my doubts about Rickon, he doesn't appear in the original synopsis and has been shunted off to Skagos out of the way, while Bran I suspect will only come out of the cave feet first if at all.

[Han Snow]

My hat comes off to your picking up on the Jon-Arya business before anybody else, but my scepticism is not concerning Arya or the possibility of her marrying Jon, but rather in doubting Jon's eventual kingship. I dare say its possible that just as the wildlings were pledging fealty to him, he might in time become King in the North, but the synopsis appears to firmly rule against becoming a Targaryen king sitting atop the Iron Throne.

IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT. There is no mention of the actual ENDING, not of the second book but of the entire saga. None. Dany takes Westeros which is logical and expected, but there is nothing on how it all ends. So the post above is only your opinion.

To the OP...Well what you wrote is a mess.

[Black Crow]

You've not read the original Winds of Winter synopsis then?

[Arya Targaryen]

You've not read the original Winds of Winter synopsis then?

I'm not sure if I know what you mean... I've read those 3 pages, but that was for the first book, isn't it? Is there more?

[Black Crow]

Yes, this one has appeared a couple of years ago and again a month or so back as the publisher's blurb for the forthcoming Winds of Winter. Its nothing of the sort of course but if you compare both the way its worded and the scenario described with that in the 1993 synopsis for Game of Thrones its pretty clear that this is the synopsis for Winds of Winter written when it was still intended as the third volume of the original trilogy.

Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sworn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany’s fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final climactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.

[Arya Targaryen]

Yes, this one has appeared a couple of years ago and again a month or so back as the publisher's blurb for the forthcoming Winds of Winter. Its nothing of the sort of course but if you compare both the way its worded and the scenario described with that in the 1993 synopsis for Game of Thrones its pretty clear that this is the synopsis for Winds of Winter written when it was still intended as the third volume of the original trilogy.

Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sworn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany’s fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final climactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.

Thanks, i've read this once, and wondered how could anyone take it as a synopsis for WoW (likem, Dany is nowhere near to Westeros yet, etc) But if it was the original outline for the third book, that makes sense.

I do wonder though what the bolded part means. One could be either Jon or Bran, going to the Lands of Always Winter. But what about the fire one (the Shadow, I guess, or somewhere close to Asshai). Dany would be the obvious choice, but she is apperentely busy saving her kingdom, Westeros.

[Black Crow]

Thanks, i've read this once, and wondered how could anyone take it as a synopsis for WoW (likem, Dany is nowhere near to Westeros yet, etc) But if it was the original outline for the third book, that makes sense.

I do wonder though what the bolded part means. One could be either Jon or Bran, going to the Lands of Always Winter. But what about the fire one (the Shadow, I guess, or somewhere close to Asshai). Dany would be the obvious choice, but she is apperentely busy saving her kingdom, Westeros.

Yes, Jon seems a shoe-in for the journey up north, especially given that line to Tyrion in AGoT about going to look for his Uncle Benjen, and from what GRRM has said we probably will see this in the actual Winds of Winter. The heart of fire presumably lies in Valyria and I'd agree that Dany is slated for that one. Going there from Westeros does sound problematic but we do have Quaithe rabbiting on about "going back" and if in the as written version Young Aegon's conquest is substituted for Dany's then Valyria is convenient sityated for where she is now, especially if Tyron tags along looking for his uncle.

[Arya Targaryen]

Yep, at this point it would make sense for Dany to go to Valyria, maybe with Tyrion. But I just don't see them doing it. And IIRC i read somewhere that Dany will be heading towards Westeros in Winds, that means she will be around in the last (?) book. Going back to Varyria at that point just seems unlikely.