SeanF Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I think the joke is on Maester Yandel, for describing these as bizarre ideas. But, if they were really Dornish law, I think he'd have said so.Dorne does seem to have a far more intense patriotism than other parts of Westeros, and it may be this leads to greater social solidarity, between different social classes. OTOH, comparing the descriptions of Sunspear, the Shadow City, and the Water Gardens, the gap between rich and poor still seems pretty huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The Water Gardens is a fascinating place though in that it accepts all kinds of people from across the social strata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Dorne is a warrior culture. The fact that Daemon Sand had a sexual relationship with Oberyn might not be considered strange. But, if people thought that his knighthood was a reward for such an affair, that would be a damaging allegation. It would be. However isn't Daemon Sand considered one of the greatest swords in Dorne? Unless we are talking about another type sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Headcanon time again, Julia start your engines. Does anyone have any ideas why the Rhoynar female fighter culture was went out of style? I know Nymeria was more commander than warrior but she still knew about military matters and was very capable, plus even if she never fought much plenty of the women she arrived with were fighters. Her daughters carried on leading after her in much the same way she lead so what happened to the culture of warrior women/commanders that the Rhoyne had? Was it a sacrifice that the Rhoynar made, they'd changed Dorne enough so they bent to some of the native ways themselves. Has it maybe not ended in terms of being a commander of troops its just that Arianne didn't get training in it due to there being ''plans'' afoot? That seems unlikely though or she might have have mentioned it Are warrior women maybe more accepted as long as they don't do traditional knightly things like Lady Lance? Or do we not know enough about Dorne to really guess one way or another about how women and fighting go together? Does anyone think this could be where the inflated 50,000 spears comes from? In time of total war even the women will fight to protect Dorne? During Aegons invasion it always just seem to be they very old and very young in the castles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Does anyone think this could be where the inflated 50,000 spears comes from? In time of total war even the women will fight to protect Dorne? During Aegons invasion it always just seem to be they very old and very young in the castles. Nope. The limit of military mobilization is not the number of healthy males between 20 and 60 (that's like 30% of the total population), but how much workforce can be spared without causing famine. With the given technology level, about 1%. Regardless whether they are male or female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Haven't seen one of these threads in ages... We know about Obarra has been trained as a warrior and how she demands that she be given control of one of Doran's armies in the passes. So there is at least some evidence that a tradition of warrior woman continue in Dorne (I am unaware of any others), but only seen in an example of a noble. If the tradition of Dornish woman being involved in military affairs did fall away, then the simple reason is that the practices didn't continue. Scotland was was independent for centuries and resisted all foreign invasions, but in the end they adopted many laws and cultural practices from the English and the continent, as well as the language. By the time the Normans had conquered England, they purposely moved away from Tanistry laws of inheritance to Primogeniture, and many Norman and/or Flemish nobles came to the Kingdom to rise high. While Dorne certainly has not shed most of its identity, other aspects may have fallen way (but I doubt this, as Obara seemingly contradicts this theory). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 We know about Obarra has been trained as a warrior and how she demands that she be given control of one of Doran's armies in the passes. So there is at least some evidence that a tradition of warrior woman continue in Dorne (I am unaware of any others), but only seen in an example of a noble. That seems to be a wrong impression, based on Obara's own ideas. Nobody backs her up. A bit like Brienne and way worse than Asha, Maege, Dacey or Aly. [spoiler] In the Arianne gift chapters, Elia Sand tries to go into the same direction and is basically mobbed, including threats from strangers to spank her to cure her of her unwomanly pursuit of jousting. [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 That seems to be a wrong impression, based on Obara's own ideas. Nobody backs her up. A bit like Brienne and way worse than Asha, Maege, Dacey or Aly. [spoiler] In the Arianne gift chapters, Elia Sand tries to go into the same direction and is basically mobbed, including threats from strangers to spank her to cure her of her unwomanly pursuit of jousting. [/spoiler] True about Obarra. She literally is the only example of a Dornish warrior woman, so likely the exception rather than the norm. [Spoiler]I actually forgot about that, it really has been a long time since I read that sample.[/Spoiler] Actually, for all intents and purposes Nymeria's exodus is more of an example of mass mobilization than a culture that has a well established position of female warriors/soldiers. Perhaps it isn't surprising that it fell by the wayside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 We don't really know what things were like for the Rhoynar given they had magic as well. Maybe the Mother Rhoyne liked women soldiers fighting as homage to her and so a tradition grew up and once they were away from the Rhoyne it fell away because the Seven didn't have such a custom. We know that they had female war leaders because Nymeria lead her troops as General and her daughters did the same. Plus given the absolute primogeniture you need to make sure the girls know war craft as well as the boys. The Rhoynar is one culture I'd love to know more of. What exists now in Dorne is just embers of what existed that has over time mingled with the original Dornish culture and created something new. Maybe some of what happens on the Greenblood is more true to rhoynar life, but even that will have evolved over a thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Actually, we know that the Rhoynar had damn few female warriors, if they had any at all. We know that Nymeria's escapees were almost exclusively women and children, because the men had marched to war with Garin and died. The women did not and survived to flee with Nymeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Thinking of Dornish Spouse Island. How many spouses actually get mentioned? We know of Mellario, also Lady Jordayne is around. Ryon Allyrion and Ynys Yronwood as well, and also Lord Estermont.. But beyond that I can't think of anyone else in the current time. In the past there was Daenerys and Drazenko Rogare. There is also all the people from the MUSH as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Thinking of Dornish Spouse Island. How many spouses actually get mentioned? We know of Mellario, also Lady Jordayne is around. Ryon Allyrion and Ynys Yronwood as well, and also Lord Estermont.. But beyond that I can't think of anyone else in the current time. In the past there was Daenerys and Drazenko Rogare. There is also all the people from the MUSH as well. While the MUSH trees can be gun to look at, it is not canon, especially all the stuff that was already there before the updaten. Everything that was added for 2.0 has greater chances of being true, as far as GRRM's notes and the current canon work is concerned, but by no means is it set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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