Dornish Debates IV

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Last time we lasted for 25 pages :) Let's continue

Dornish Debates Glossary

Past threads:
Dornish Debates i: What Gender was Yronwood’s Lover?
Dornish Debates ii: Of Orphans and Inheritance
Dorne Appreciation Thread (got into some debates halfway through)

Dornish Debates iii: Of Kings and Courts

Related:
Trial by Folly: The Arianne Martell Reread Project
"Someone told. Someone always tells"

Prince Mud: The Quentyn Martell Reread Project

Do you want to play some Cyvasse: The Trystane Martell Reread Project

A Game of Thrones, A Game of Cyvasse: A Cyvasse Analysis

[Chebyshov]

Yahhs! We should totally include that super insightful Trystane reread, right?

Where we last left off we were discussing Trys and wtf happened when his cousins were suddenly locked up, and then his sister disappeared.

Rhaenys suggested:

Hmm.. I do wonder what Doran told him. Because Myrcella also disappeared.... Doran could keep up the "Myrcella is sick" bit, but probably not for long.. Trystane was immune to the disease, after all. Did Trys go to the Water Gardens, to try and keep Myrcella on the Martell's good side? I like to think he wouldn't have cared about the fact that her ear was cut off...

I agree that he wouldn't have cared about Myrcella's injury. I always assumed he went to the Water Gardens with her too, as he wasn't at the feast for Swann and it'd make sense to try and keep Myrcella calm and happy.

Did Rosamund Lannister go too? Do she and Trys get along or is that a point of contention? Let's overthink all of this!

[Equilibrium]

Did Rosamund Lannister go too? Do she and Trys get along or is that a point of contention? Let's overthink all of this!

We have no reason to think they didn't get along, Trys doesn't see the kind to dislike someone over nothing. But they didn' hang out while plot was under way, Arys didn't let him because they knew he would notice the difference. I like to think he has gone to Myrcella because he really cared and wanted to help her get thought the injury.

But to return to why Trystane was not off in some Dornish shithole scouring mail for some lesser lord with whom Doran has to repay relations? I know I said it before but allow me to repeat myself, I think it cast another light on Dornish ruling family relations. Maybe Doran is just sentimental and wants to shelter and keep close is youngest child who btw seems calm, smart and cheerful lad not rebellious like some of his siblings nor thick like the other. Doran is sick, and sick, old parents especially those without spouse tend to love keeping youngest child close no matter how seemingly irrational that can seem.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yahhs! We should totally include that super insightful Trystane reread, right?

Where we last left off we were discussing Trys and wtf happened when his cousins were suddenly locked up, and then his sister disappeared.

Rhaenys suggested:

I agree that he wouldn't have cared about Myrcella's injury. I always assumed he went to the Water Gardens with her too, as he wasn't at the feast for Swann and it'd make sense to try and keep Myrcella calm and happy.

Did Rosamund Lannister go too? Do she and Trys get along or is that a point of contention? Let's overthink all of this!

I always assumed that everyone that came to Dorne with Myrcella was sent to the Water Gardens.. Otherwise, they would be present at Sunspear to tell Ser Balon that something strange had happened... That they hadn't seen Myrcella for a while, hadn't seen Ser Arys, hadn't received orders from Arys... Arys had put a look-a-like in his place, and one in Myrcella's place. People will have known about it, and Ser Balon would be extremely suspicious upon hearing this, I'd say..

And your Trystane Reread is added :p

[Julia Martell]

But to return to why Trystane was not off in some Dornish shithole scouring mail for some lesser lord with whom Doran has to repay relations? I know I said it before but allow me to repeat myself, I think it cast another light on Dornish ruling family relations. Maybe Doran is just sentimental and wants to shelter and keep close is youngest child who btw seems calm, smart and cheerful lad not rebellious like some of his siblings nor thick like the other. Doran is sick, and sick, old parents especially those without spouse tend to love keeping youngest child close no matter how seemingly irrational that can seem.

I guess we can presume he was at the Water Gardens until he was ten or so? Maybe he only started hanging around in Sunspear when Myrcella came down?

Really, I think it’s a little lucky that Trys seems to like Myrcella so much. What did he think, like, right after when someone (who was probably not Doran) was all like “Guess what! It’s been decided that you’re going to marry a member of a family that you’ve mostly likely been taught to hate. She’s coming to live here now, and you have to hang out with her. Have fun because you have no choice."

[Equilibrium]

I guess we can presume he was at the Water Gardens until he was ten or so? Maybe he only started hanging around in Sunspear when Myrcella came down?

Really, I think it’s a little lucky that Trys seems to like Myrcella so much. What did he think, like, right after when someone (who was probably not Doran) was all like “Guess what! It’s been decided that you’re going to marry a member of a family that you’ve mostly likely been taught to hate. She’s coming to live here now, and you have to hang out with her. Have fun because you have no choice."

Again my opinion is that Trys was a bit sheltered, yeah Doran is obsessed with revenge but he also values happy and innocent childhood too much for him to indoctrinate his kids with hatred towards the Lannisters from the early age, and that goes double for Trystane. And Doran was ofen in Water Gardens himself. Trys is past the age by which he should have been send to be ward or page to another house.

About him liking Myrcelle, have you every seen twelve-year-old pretending to like someone good enough to fool adult observer?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Trystane was probably a very lonely kid, surrounded by adults. Arianne had her own circle of friends and Quentyn wasn't exactly the most charismatic chap (and he didn't even live there). I'm sure he actually liked Myrcella, or at least, he liked her company.

Yet, I think, if my theories about how Doran and Oberyn were making their plans, that they were aware of Myrcella being a bastard, and they never intended marrying her to Trystane, but they simply played along, which is super sad :(

[Julia Martell]

Yet, I think, if my theories about how Doran and Oberyn were making their plans, that they were aware of Myrcella being a bastard, and they never intended marrying her to Trystane, but they simply played along, which is super sad :(

I’m like 90% sure this was the case. And that EVERYONE but Trystane knew about it. That whole agreement was made in pretty bad faith.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I’m like 90% sure this was the case. And that EVERYONE but Trystane knew about it. That whole agreement was made in pretty bad faith.

I wonder if they will play it like this in the show. Kinda like Doran denying Arianne good suitors, although here would be just plain cruel.

Either way, his betrothal is already over and I'm sure poor Trystane has realised it.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I hope that Areo and Obara find and capture Darkstar quickly, so Hotah can return to Doran and Trystane, and we can see them some more...

[Bironic]

Trys is past the age by which he should have been send to be ward or page to another house.

There are other children that aren't page. Not every highborn child becomes a ward or a page. Look at Eddard's or Stannis children for example.

Perhaps Doran promised Mellario that Trys would remain at home to fix their troubled marriage.

[Chebyshov]

I’m like 90% sure this was the case. And that EVERYONE but Trystane knew about it. That whole agreement was made in pretty bad faith.

TBF, Tyrion out of the blue was just like "HERE'S MYRCELLA AND SOME CASTLES AND A SEAT ON THE COUNCIL PLEASE DON'T REBEL!" and the Martells were like, "dafuq? We never were going to but thank you for all the free stuff."

I hope that Areo and Obara find and capture Darkstar quickly, so Hotah can return to Doran and Trystane, and we can see them some more...

Can they please, please meet Anders first though?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

There are other children that aren't page. Not every highborn child becomes a ward or a page. Look at Eddard's or Stannis children for example.

Stannis is probably a knight. If he's a knight, he has probably been someone's squire. He wasn't a page because Robert was out being a ward and someone had to be in SE.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

TBF, Tyrion out of the blue was just like "HERE'S MYRCELLA AND SOME CASTLES AND A SEAT ON THE COUNCIL PLEASE DON'T REBEL!" and the Martells were like, "dafuq? We never were going to but thank you for all the free stuff."

Doran: If only we could have something to negotiate with the Lannisters...

Oberyn: Mmm...

Servant: My Prince, there is a letter from King's Landing.

[SeanF]

I wonder if they will play it like this in the show. Kinda like Doran denying Arianne good suitors, although here would be just plain cruel.Either way, his betrothal is already over and I'm sure poor Trystane has realised it.

What do you think the Dornish plan to do with Myrcella?

[Julia Martell]

I wonder if they will play it like this in the show. Kinda like Doran denying Arianne good suitors, although here would be just plain cruel.

Either way, his betrothal is already over and I'm sure poor Trystane has realised it.

If I had to guess, I would say they’re going to make Trystane coming to that realization his primary motivation, which... :rolleyes: Although I’d happily take that over vengeance crazed Ellaria.

I’d say Operation Old Dude was way past just plain cruel. Like, did Doran realize he was essentially publicly humiliating her?

What do you think the Dornish plan to do with Myrcella?

I think she’s out of play, as far as they’re concerned. They're using her return to King’s Landing as an excuse to establish Nym and Tyene there and that’s it.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

TBF, Tyrion out of the blue was just like "HERE'S MYRCELLA AND SOME CASTLES AND A SEAT ON THE COUNCIL PLEASE DON'T REBEL!" and the Martells were like, "dafuq? We never were going to but thank you for all the free stuff."

Can they please, please meet Anders first though?

Sure :)

What do you think the Dornish plan to do with Myrcella?

Seeing as she is on her way to KL, not much..

[Julia Martell]

TBF, Tyrion out of the blue was just like "HERE'S MYRCELLA AND SOME CASTLES AND A SEAT ON THE COUNCIL PLEASE DON'T REBEL!" and the Martells were like, "dafuq? We never were going to but thank you for all the free stuff."

Well... yeah they are planning on rebelling, but not with noob-boy Renly. It’s kind of hilarious to me how Renly just kind of takes it for granted that 50 000 Dornish spearmen are totally gonna show up any minute, just because.

[HexMachina]

Sure :)

Seeing as she is on her way to KL, not much..

Do you think they will reach Kings Landing without interference? Unless they are travelling by ship, which I don't recall they were, they would be passing through the Stormlands, right? The Golden Company are scattered across that region, do you think their party may run into the King's Landing party at all? The Sand Snakes should be perfectly safe in that situation (Griff having made clear he intends an alliance with Dorne) but Myrcella is less certain. (I imagine the Sand Snakes will get to KL eventually, so I am by no means suggesting their journey is halted indefinitely)

ETA: I have to say, I love all of your Dornish enthusiasm :love: and what I have managed to see of your rereads so far has been great, btw :)

[Julia Martell]

Do you think they will reach Kings Landing without interference? Unless they are travelling by ship, which I don't recall they were, they would be passing through the Stormlands, right? The Golden Company are scattered across that region, do you think their party may run into the King's Landing party at all? The Sand Snakes should be perfectly safe in that situation (Griff having made clear he intends an alliance with Dorne) but Myrcella is less certain. (I imagine the Sand Snakes will get to KL eventually, so I am by no means suggesting their journey is halted indefinitely)

ETA: I have to say, I love all of your Dornish enthusiasm :love: and what I have managed to see of your rereads so far has been great, btw :)

Given how unconcerned Arianne is with this in her sample chapter, I always kind of assumed they were going up the Rose Road. The Ironmen aren’t a problem in the interior of the Reach yet. Maybe you’re right and the journey will be more interesting than intended, but somehow I don’t think so. I think the author wants have the two Snakes in King’s Landing as soon as he can.