AFFC Appreciation Thread

[Pipewrenched]

AFFC is awesome. Its like the eye of the Storm, people are leaving their Houses thinking its over, but the occasional chimney is being ripped off to give you a clue that its too early to relax, you look at whats passed, and then you look at whats yet to come and realise, you're fucked.

Cool post

[Lenabot]

Anything following ASOS is going to feel like a bit of a let down. It's hard to let go of that kind of intensity. That said, I enjoyed AFFC more than most apparently did. ADWD was the one that felt like it dragged on and on for me. It took me forever to finish it.

[sifth]

And what would be so terrible about that? Mandon Moore had an even more abrupt life in the show: he was introduced (or whatever that was) and, after saying a single line or something like that, killed in the very next scene he was in, in the same episode. Not to mention that the viewers probably didn't recognize that's the same guy, because, opposite to Stannis, Mandon did have a helmet in battle, even though in his case it was wrong for the very reason they took the helmet from Stannis. Arys theoretically couldn't be "adapted" worse than that.

And also, the show as it is really can't serve as a standard anything should be measured against, especially anything from the infinitely superior source material. But that's for some other thread in some other subforum.

What does this even mean? What science advices against killing a character soon after giving him a single POV chapter? Isn't this the series in which every installment starts with the death of the prologue's POV character? Really, what structure suffered because of Arys' mini-arc?

Listening some of the complainers, one might think Martin broke some ancient golden rules of literature by writing one chapter that isn't particularly remarkable. It's absurd, really. I mean, nobody's forcing you or anyone to love Arys or anything in these books, but some of the most frequent complains are simply ridiculous. I'll never understand why do some people feel the need to act oh so smart while criticizing. Shouldn't the strength of your arguments be sufficient? Why the need to fill everything with some quasi-serious remarks like "it doesn't make sense structurally"? Remarks like that are what really makes no sense. You know, in a series told through dozens of POV characters, and in an installment that introduces half a dozen new POV characters and a completely new type of chapter titles and the geographical divide that never happened before, a single chapter really can't damage the structure. If written or placed badly, it can damage the rhythm or the pace or the flow, but it really can't influence the structure in any significant way.

For the record, I didn't mind Arys' chapter, because it really wasn't badly written or illogical, but, on the other hand, I probably wouldn't mind if it was cut out. Yes, as a character that only had one purpose, and that is to die during the failed attempt at kidnapping Myrcella, Arys was really not a remarkable character and he could easily be removed/replaced as a POV character in some hypothetical rewriting of AFFC. But it really wouldn't be necessary, because his one chapter hardly makes any difference one way or another.

I'm not gona Wall of text you, but at the end of the day all Arys was is a POV character that contributed nothing to the plot aside from being killed. He wasn't even an opening or ending POV either. To this day I still don't understand why George wrote this chapter and what he felt was so interesting about this guy he planned to simply kill off in his next appearance.

[RandomUser191]

sifth@: i think GRRM gave him a POV to show the situation in Dorne after ASOS from the viewpoint of a foreigner. i remember arys thinking to himself how xenophobic the dornish are towards "outsiders" during AFFC.

funny how noone seems to notice that.

[sifth]

sifth@: i think GRRM gave him a POV to show the situation in Dorne after ASOS from the viewpoint of a foreigner. i remember arys thinking to himself how xenophobic the dornish are towards "outsiders" during AFFC.

funny how noone seems to notice that.

Don't we get that with Areo Hotah though. He's an outsider as well who has been living among the Dornish for years.

[Anythingatall]

I'm not gona Wall of text you, but at the end of the day all Arys was is a POV character that contributed nothing to the plot aside from being killed. He wasn't even an opening or ending POV either. To this day I still don't understand why George wrote this chapter and what he felt was so interesting about this guy he planned to simply kill off in his next appearance.

A poster on here made an interesting case for it. If I remember correctly the basic gist was something to do with introducing Arianne from a straight male POV and... something to do with the male gaze... Quentyn was in there too.. basically it was about playing with perceptions of female characters. Obviously I can't actually remember after all but I thought it was an interesting point when I read it, sadly Arianne as a character does little for me so I can't remember the details.

[RandomUser191]

Don't we get that with Areo Hotah though. He's an outside as well who has been living among the Dornish for years.

yes, but he's from norvos, while arys is a part of the kingsguard (dorne hates kings landing and the lannisters).

also, do we really ever get much of an insight on areo? he just seems to be doran's observer.

[King17]

I am rereading It and it is better than it was the first time i read itnot as good as the first three but still goof

[TheWeepingKnight]

I have yet to reread though I also loved it first time around and think it is riddled with excellent moments. Some of the complaints are ridiculous to me, or at the very least depend of very, very subjective preferences despite the weak attempts to pass them off as some evidence of how terrible AFFC is in a very dogmatic manner. I loved ADWD even more so and view AFFC/ADWD at the ACT II of the story, so shit like unresolved cliffhangers I never got up in arms over.

And I still liked Arys' chapter and introducing Arianne from his perspective as oppose to hers. Also gives me more sympathy when Arianne reflects on him given that we knew him his own POV.

Simply things like "wah Tyrion in ADWD was a pointless travelogue" I get irritated by.

[hear me bore]

I agree, the more I read AFFC, the more I like it. I honestly think ACOK is the real weak link in this series so far.

Totally agree. I find AFFC much more enjoyable than ACOK. It was great to see Tyrion dominating in ACOK but the Jaime, Victarion, and Hotah in AFFC are so rereadable.

[ZG1234]

I'm a big fan of Feast. It has so many rich stories in it--from the Iron Islands/Kingsmoot plot to Arianne's chapters ending with that great confrontation with Prince Doran, the entire book is solid.

And I can't even tell you how many times I've choked up reading Brienne's chapters with Septon Meribald discussing 'broken men,' and her time on the Quiet Isle with the Elder Brother. After Storm of Swords, it's my favorite book.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

I loved Feast. On my first read I was pleased to see more of Dorne and the Iron Islands, and all the new POV's that came with that, the Kingsmoot was an obvious highlight. But also, for me the remaining POV's were solid, and I wasn't bothered to be missing out on the other main players. [ Having said that, I had ADWD ready to read, so I can only imagine the frustration of long time readers.]

While I appreciate this book was slower paced than others, on a re-read and exploration into various chapters, the small clues and new avenues of thought to be found in new POV''s, and old, are awesome. I particularly like Jaime's chapters at RR, and how they tie into the BWB's history in Arya's chapters.

I will add that ASOS is still my favourite of the series, but after that I feel Feast holds its own, and gets better with re-reads. :)

[Kyoshi]

It's my second favourite in the series, after A Game of Thrones. If it had Jon and Dany chapters, it would be my favourite; but it had Jaime, so I loved that. And it deals with issues too often ignored in the fantasy genre. I loved that the series calmed down and we were allowed to view the ugliness of war, after its end.

I hated it the first time I read it because so few of the characters I loved had POV chapters and I kept expecting the next one to be from one of them, it never happened and Jaime and Arya were the only consolation I had. But reading it a second time, mentally prepared, I allowed myself to be awed by the political structure of this world, which goes beyond magic and other commonly overblown things.

That said, if I were Martin, I would not publish this book as it currently is, nor would I do it if I were his publisher. It introduces far too many new faces and neglects the already established fan-favourites. It is alienating. It doesn't help that Arys Oakheart, who the author regrets writing as a POV character, is one of those new faces. Most of the story-lines have yet to conclude and I suppose it is easy for people to doubt the book's significance.