Cas Stark Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's unnecessary. What does it add to anything? It doesn't happen in the books, it's very probable that one of them will be dead in the books before they ever consummate the marriage, so Marg won't get pregnant, it's very doubtful this is any kind of future brought forward. It does nothing to deepen either character...in fact it may end up making TV Tommen seem stupid, he's older, he's old enough to understand how to wield the power of the kingship, unlike his book counterpart. So, why when Marg gets imprisoned, would TV Tommen allow it, especially if they've consummated the marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgantayler Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Kit Harington will be on Late Night with Seth Meyers tonight. Maybe they'll show a new clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 How is it in character for Tommen? Even during their season 4 scene in Tommen's badchamber, Tommen looked childish and embarrassed. And how much time passed since then? a month or two? Tommen wouldn't mature so fast I think. He was clearly inexperienced about sex and taken off guard by her behavior, but thanks to Tywin's the birds and the bees talk, he should know where to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Kit Harington will be on Late Night with Seth Meyers tonight. Maybe they'll show a new clip? Nikolaj is on Fallon this week too. So it'd have to be a new clip then at least since there hasn't been a Jaime one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllOfTheHours Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Of course it’s not necessary. Like, 5% of the changes they’ve made have been necessary. That doesn’t mean they won’t do it. That’s fair too. I was damn confused by Talisa, and the Qaarth stuff, and it may be my nostalgia talking, but even if they had kept the changes at THAT level I would still be pretty happy. To expand on an analogy that GRRM made, this is no longer a question of how many children Scarlett O’Hara had, this is as if Scarlett had sold Tara and given the money to a charity to promote literacy among freed slaves because she decided that being rich wasn’t all that important after all. Yeah, I really like the Scarlet O'Hara analogy, changes matter/become an issue when they effect the integrity of the plot, characters, themes, and pathos of the story. It's unnecessary. What does it add to anything? It doesn't happen in the books, it's very probable that one of them will be dead in the books before they ever consummate the marriage, so Marg won't get pregnant, it's very doubtful this is any kind of future brought forward. It does nothing to deepen either character...in fact it may end up making TV Tommen seem stupid, he's older, he's old enough to understand how to wield the power of the kingship, unlike his book counterpart. So, why when Marg gets imprisoned, would TV Tommen allow it, especially if they've consummated the marriage? Yeah, the little change of ageing up Tommen and making Marge savvy and sassy changes the politics in KL. Now they have a king almost old enough to rule in his own right (making Cersei's power grabs negligible, because they'll expire shortly regardless) and a Queen who is an ambitious and probably capable player (who now can use sex to control the King). Even beyond the ethics of a sex scene between Tommen/Marge, the story itself is very much changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah. I can see that point. But even then, Margaery would just lead him into it for the other reason I stated. It's more the presentation I have problems with if it's 'Hey! He's banging Margaery! High five!' instead of showing Margaery being uncomfortable with it, Tommen having issues of being in a sexual relationship, and generally going about it in a juvenile way. I don't see why Marg would be uncomfortable with it. It is to be expected in that society. Edit: As for why Tommen was made older, I suspect they wanted the character to be more independent in what was a location depleted of major characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiroVoid Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I don't see why Marg would be uncomfortable with it. It is to be expected in that society. Edit: As for why Tommen was made older, I suspect they wanted the character to be more independent in what was a location depleted of major characters. Even so, Tyrion made note of it when discussing Sansa with Bronn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgantayler Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Nikolaj is on Fallon this week too. So it'd have to be a new clip then at least since there hasn't been a Jaime one yet. It will probably be a new one on Fallon. I wouldn't be surprised if the one they air tonight is the Jon/Mance one we've already seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah, I really like the Scarlet O'Hara analogy, changes matter/become an issue when they effect the integrity of the plot, characters, themes, and pathos of the story. Yeah, the little change of ageing up Tommen and making Marge savvy and sassy changes the politics in KL. Now they have a king almost old enough to rule in his own right (making Cersei's power grabs negligible, because they'll expire shortly regardless) and a Queen who is an ambitious and probably capable player (who now can use sex to control the King). Even beyond the ethics of a sex scene between Tommen/Marge, the story itself is very much changed. I think that this change would say a lot about their priorities. Their thinking would be “oh, if we age Tommen up than he and Marge can have sexy times and it would be less creepy” and not “if we age Tommen up, that would change the dynamics of the relationships between him a his mother and with Margaery”. It would say a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Even so, Tyrion made note of it when discussing Sansa with Bronn. And it is noted that what Tyrion did (or didn't do) was very unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I don't see why Marg would be uncomfortable with it. It is to be expected in that society. Edit: As for why Tommen was made older, I suspect they wanted the character to be more independent in what was a location depleted of major characters. How independent can he be when we know the outcome for his mother--walk of shame, and for Marg--her trial, and in the show even Loras goes on trial, even rearming the faith. Him being isolated and easy to control made sense in the books because he was a child. Having all the same outcomes that his mother creates with him cast as an intelligent teenage boy will be, dare I say, a bit illogical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 How independent can he be when we know the outcome for his mother--walk of shame, and for Marg--her trial, and in the show even Loras goes on trial, even rearming the faith. Him being isolated and easy to control made sense in the books because he was a child. Having all the same outcomes that his mother creates with him cast as an intelligent teenage boy will be, dare I say, a bit illogical? He might be highly ineffectual. A good meaning person who fails. I will have to wait until I have seen the season. I think it will also hit the audience more when he bites the dust than if he was just off screen most of the time. Sort of how we saw more of Robb in season two than in book two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 So has anyone seen this? Beware, it might be a spoiler for who wins the throne :lmao: I thought it was fitting given we're talking about kids and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllOfTheHours Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I understand what a lot of posters are saying, that with an aged-up Tommen the sex becomes possible. And I respect your points. But the question, for me, is what came first: the chicken or the egg? Did they age up Tommen because they wanted to majorly change the power in KL (and sex with Marge is a "fringe benefit"). Or did they age up Tommen so he could have sex with Marge, and they will push on with the book plot - Cersei's WOW and Marge's imprisonment - as if he was still a child (even though that plot won't feel as natural anymore, because he's a teen now). The cause and effect (and the squeamishness) makes me :tantrum:, haha. How independent can he be when we know the outcome for his mother--walk of shame, and for Marg--her trial, and in the show even Loras goes on trial, even rearming the faith. Him being isolated and easy to control made sense in the books because he was a child. Having all the same outcomes that his mother creates with him cast as an intelligent teenage boy will be, dare I say, a bit illogical?This. I'm curious how they will play him as incompetent rather than just youthful/innocent. I don't mind him being a bit OOC because he is older. But D&D will have to reinvent/rewrite him in many ways to make it work. I think that this change would say a lot about their priorities. Their thinking would be “oh, if we age Tommen up than he and Marge can have sexy times and it would be less creepy” and not “if we age Tommen up, that would change the dynamics of the relationships between him a his mother and with Margaery”. It would say a lot.Yes, yes, and yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 So has anyone seen this? Beware, it might be a spoiler for who wins the throne :lmao: I thought it was fitting given we're talking about kids and all. I like Melisandre's cameo there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Aging up Tommen is probably one of D&D's biggest mistakes and it pisses me off to no endI mean, first off: rape. There, I said it. Show!Tommen has been depicted, at best, as a young child, and at worst, as unbelievably naive. Either way, Margaery would be manipulating him to get some, and it's just ewww. Like, not even with Joffrey it would've been this gross because Joff at least wanted to get into her cone dress and he seemed to know what sex was about. Show!Tommen can't even spell "sex", I bet. This is another Septgate waiting to happen, if they go this way. People were grossed out as it were with the bedroom scene, and this time Ser Pounce won't be there to protect Tommen's maidenhood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Blake Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about Tommen. They had no choice but to age him up. In Season 1 he was about the same age as Bran. Bran is a young man now so it wouldn't make sense to have Tommen still be a little kid. Even if they had kept the original actor he still would have been way to old to have the same storyline as Book Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Aging up Tommen is probably one of D&D's biggest mistakes and it pisses me off to no endI mean, first off: rape. There, I said it. Show!Tommen has been depicted, at best, as a young child, and at worst, as unbelievably naive. Either way, Margaery would be manipulating him to get some, and it's just ewww. Like, not even with Joffrey it would've been this gross because Joff at least wanted to get into her cone dress and he seemed to know what sex was about. Show!Tommen can't even spell "sex", I bet. This is another Septgate waiting to happen, if they go this way. People were grossed out as it were with the bedroom scene, and this time Ser Pounce won't be there to protect Tommen's maidenhood! Good for you, it’s not a stretch at all to call it rape. :agree: Five bucks says they play that “luckiest boy in Westeros” trope about it too. They obviously learned nothing from Talisa, since Tryscella promises to be Talisa/Robb 2.0, so why would they learn anything from Sept-gate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaario Starkharis Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I understand what a lot of posters are saying, that with an aged-up Tommen the sex becomes possible. And I respect your points. But the question, for me, is what came first: the chicken or the egg? Did they age up Tommen because they wanted to majorly change the power in KL (and sex with Marge is a "fringe benefit"). Or did they age up Tommen so he could have sex with Marge, and they will push on with the book plot - Cersei's WOW and Marge's imprisonment - as if he was still a child (even though that plot won't feel as natural anymore, because he's a teen now). Or did they age up Tommen just because the children cast grew up? Remember that Callum Wharry was last seen in Blackwater, almost three years ago, then Tommen was absent during the entirety of season 3. I don't know how old the actor is now, but he must be around the same age as Dean-Charles Chapman, no more than a year younger. Callum was about the same age as Isaac in season 1, and Isaac is huge now. I wonder how much has Callum grown since we last saw him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrion Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm really nervous for Shireen if Stannis has a heart to heart scene with her. He is probably going to remind people that she is his heir and all of that. Really nervous for her, despite the context seems like its implying Stannis dying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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