MoreOrLess Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The big issue I'd imagine was time, time and the desire to have sub plots contained within a single season. If you introduce the Riverlands plot for example then I think either other stories become over rushed or there conclusions are put back into season 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The show writers are having to deviate and fit new story stuff in because they have deviated so much from the books. Lady stoneheart should be kept but they prob will never have her unless they give that role to sansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I could see this happening because of the supposed return to the Riverlands. BUT.....it's been so long since the RW that most viewers will have forgotten exactly what happened in S3 and in general the in-show universe has moved on considerably from the events of that season. To go back and revisit old scores and settle them would seem to be a bit of an odd way to send the plot, considering it's all been forward moving so far. For what it's worth I think viewers are well aware of the situation with some other "dead" characters. They realise that the Hound is probably not dead and I'd say most realise that Greggor never truly died but was experimented on by Qyburn.I don't think they'd have too much of and issue with having a single genuine resurrection in the show but that falls to Jon Snow in all likelihood. Generally although I'd have loved to see LS in the show and think it is a wasted opportunity, it's too late now to add her in. The prime time to put her in would have been the end of S4 when Brienne was on her walkabout with Pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think that the idea of getting revenge for the Red Wedding will feature more heavily this season, if there is a Northern Lord / Riverlands centred plotline. It doesn't necessarily need to feature LSH to do that. In my opinion it could actually improve the plot to not have a crazy undead lady wandering around hanging people, but instead centring the story on characters who are a bit more believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I don't think flashing back to LSH would be that difficult, imagine for example a flashback that starts outside the twins with the Starks soliders being attacked and Robb's body being paraded then has Cat's body thrown into the river and discovered by the Brotherhood. The audience for the show has grown during its run but I expect the vast majority of it went back and watched the earlier seasons as well and would pick up on that pretty easily. I would agree with C4 though that I don't think she's THAT essential to that plot, especially when you consider that any Riverlands/Northern Lords plot next season is likely to include material from winds of winter. Again one big positive for me would be not having her allows you to have Beric still involved who I think has a lot of potential played by Dormer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Heart Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Since they're returning to the Riverlands... as crazy and improbable as it seems, I'm open again to the possibility of LSH on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damorian Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Agreed. It would probably just be awkward once we get to the main thrust of the Frey revenge and Riverlands subplot all rolling on without her - epsecially when we get to the Jaime/Brienne stuff. She'd be like the elephant in the room the whole time ... especially if what replaces her is sub-par like they initially switched Jaime's FFC book arc for Dorne. You could smell the stench of the show's first truly awful adaptation (well non-adaptation :dunno:) choice a mile away and the bad news for D&D was that rather than it just being criticised by a bunch of pedant book purists nobody cared about, EVERYBODY noticed. The wider point is this: unlike some, I actually really like David & Dan, admire a lot of what they did in earlier seasons, and know they can do better. Why the show completely dropped the ball on the Riverlands immediately after the red wedding, I don't know, but it did. Maybe they regret it, maybe they don't. I suspect that somewhere along the line, fatigue has probably set in in terms of keeping every single subplot as good as it could or should've been, and they're not losing too much sleep, tbh, besides doing the best job that they can with the mountain left ahead of them, juggling a hundred other plotlines in the air. Inevitably a ball was always going to hit the deck. Quiet often a crux like this is reached where directors or showrunners who have enjoyed considerable success will make a wrong turn, but then become defensive, having become accustomed to the glowing reviews & praise. It clearly happened with the prequels to Lucas and to a lesser extent with Peter Jackson who to date, refuses to address the mess the three film strategy made of the Hobbit narrative (bolt-on 20 minute Mario cart epilogue undermining Smaug's threat anyone?) I hope infallibility-complex doesn't happen here, and that David & Dan retain the humility to still listen and to learn from their mistakes, not to mention remember that the fanbase and the readership are (for the most part) not a bunch of angry trolls out to attack them for every slight book deviation, many of which worked extremely well in earlier seasons (I'm thinking the fleeting heart-to-heart between Robert & Cersei re: Lyanna: "... all I know is she was the one thing I ever wanted ... someone took her away from me .... and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind." Just so happens to be my favourite moment in GOT to date, along with Catelyn's monologue about Jon, and both scenes are non-canon. :bowdown: ) But ultimately we know, and so do they, that Dorne and 'bad pussy' weren't scenes of that calibre. Where the likes of Hardhome and the Jorah Greyscale subplot earned their place at the table and created memorable moments for the show to be rightfully proud of, they didn't justify their place in pushing better book material out. But IF ....as it increasingly appears, season 6 takes us back to the Riverlands and somehow (preferably with her! :devil: ) pulls a lot of those disparate threads conjoined by Stoneheart together: Frey revenge, Jaime vs Brienne's choice, Edmure & Roslin, Arya warging into Nymeria, the pack of wolves roaming the Riverlands etc ... all would certainly be forgiven, that's for sure. Well, providing they don't fan-fic the hell out of it, that is, and stick as closely to the story as their current plot changes allow. :ack: Just listing the above scenes currently AWOL in the R/L, and realising that nearly all of them are either tragic, dramatic or insanely cinematic just makes their removal for the likes of this year's badly acted soap opera across the sea all the more frustrating, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Agreed. It would probably just be awkward once we get to the main thrust of the Frey revenge and Riverlands subplot all rolling on without her - epsecially when we get to the Jaime/Brienne stuff. She'd be like the elephant in the room the whole time ... especially if what replaces her is sub-par like they initially switched Jaime's FFC book arc for Dorne. You could smell the stench of the show's first truly awful adaptation (well non-adaptation :dunno:) choice a mile away and the bad news for D&D was that rather than it just being criticised by a bunch of pedant book purists nobody cared about, EVERYBODY noticed. This is my biggest concern. They cut out Jaime's Riverlands plot in favour of adding in their own made up Dorne plot and the result was truly terrible. So if they now decide they want LSH or some sort of revenge plot leading on from the RW, are they just going to try to fudge it and make up some new take on the story like we had with Dorne? If they follow a similar way of thinking as they did in S5 then this could be equally as bad as Dorne, even worse when you consider some of the Riverlands plot is very good material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think that if they are moving the Riverlands plot to this season (depending what actually this supposed riverlands plot is, and it wont involve standing outside a castle) I think they probably moved it in order to make it fit in with other storylines and make sure all the pieces were in place to make it work. I think moving Jamie to Dorne was a good choice, if they'd written it better, and it certainly escalates his problems with Cercei, coming back with a dead daughter and her having just left jail. Having him start that break from her at this point makes a lot of sense. And then you can have the Riverlands plot possibly intersecting with the Northern Lords and the Iron Islands plot line, possibly including Sams dad in there as well, as well as Brienne with him. Plus there is simply the logistics issue of too many locations to film in, which might have been a problem in previous seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 They need to do this IMO. I think Stoneheart is awesome. Arianne = awesome. Victarion = awesome. Coldhands = awesome. :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 They need to do this IMO. I think Stoneheart is awesome. Arianne = awesome. Victarion = awesome. Coldhands = awesome. :crying: Yet none of those characters appeared in Game of Thrones, Why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 To make more room for Sansa in Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendTheKnee15 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Agreed. It would probably just be awkward once we get to the main thrust of the Frey revenge and Riverlands subplot all rolling on without her - epsecially when we get to the Jaime/Brienne stuff. She'd be like the elephant in the room the whole time ... especially if what replaces her is sub-par like they initially switched Jaime's FFC book arc for Dorne. You could smell the stench of the show's first truly awful adaptation (well non-adaptation :dunno:) choice a mile away and the bad news for D&D was that rather than it just being criticised by a bunch of pedant book purists nobody cared about, EVERYBODY noticed. The wider point is this: unlike some, I actually really like David & Dan, admire a lot of what they did in earlier seasons, and know they can do better. Why the show completely dropped the ball on the Riverlands immediately after the red wedding, I don't know, but it did. Maybe they regret it, maybe they don't. I suspect that somewhere along the line, fatigue has probably set in in terms of keeping every single subplot as good as it could or should've been, and they're not losing too much sleep, tbh, besides doing the best job that they can with the mountain left ahead of them, juggling a hundred other plotlines in the air. Inevitably a ball was always going to hit the deck. Quiet often a crux like this is reached where directors or showrunners who have enjoyed considerable success will make a wrong turn, but then become defensive, having become accustomed to the glowing reviews & praise. It clearly happened with the prequels to Lucas and to a lesser extent with Peter Jackson who to date, refuses to address the mess the three film strategy made of the Hobbit narrative (bolt-on 20 minute Mario cart epilogue undermining Smaug's threat anyone?) I hope infallibility-complex doesn't happen here, and that David & Dan retain the humility to still listen and to learn from their mistakes, not to mention remember that the fanbase and the readership are (for the most part) not a bunch of angry trolls out to attack them for every slight book deviation, many of which worked extremely well in earlier seasons (I'm thinking the fleeting heart-to-heart between Robert & Cersei re: Lyanna: "... all I know is she was the one thing I ever wanted ... someone took her away from me .... and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind." Just so happens to be my favourite moment in GOT to date, along with Catelyn's monologue about Jon, and both scenes are non-canon. :bowdown: ) But ultimately we know, and so do they, that Dorne and 'bad pussy' weren't scenes of that calibre. Where the likes of Hardhome and the Jorah Greyscale subplot earned their place at the table and created memorable moments for the show to be rightfully proud of, they didn't justify their place in pushing better book material out. But IF ....as it increasingly appears, season 6 takes us back to the Riverlands and somehow (preferably with her! :devil: ) pulls a lot of those disparate threads conjoined by Stoneheart together: Frey revenge, Jaime vs Brienne's choice, Edmure & Roslin, Arya warging into Nymeria, the pack of wolves roaming the Riverlands etc ... all would certainly be forgiven, that's for sure. Well, providing they don't fan-fic the hell out of it, that is, and stick as closely to the story as their current plot changes allow. :ack: Just listing the above scenes currently AWOL in the R/L, and realising that nearly all of them are either tragic, dramatic or insanely cinematic just makes their removal for the likes of this year's badly acted soap opera across the sea all the more frustrating, tbh. Best post ever. Hits every point and couldn't be said better. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendTheKnee15 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 It's not too late. They could creatively construct some plot armour and insert the four characters in S6 :drool: Edit: Make that 5. I feel like Val inclusion is viable. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unsung Hero Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 If I remember correctly, in an interview with D&D said that part of the reason for cutting out Stoneheart is that actors are often paid by how many lines they receive in an episode script, and if a character has little to no lines, then financially, unless the actress doesn't care, they have little incentive to take up the role when other roles may be offered. Stoneheart can't talk, so she'd essentially just be paid to stand on set in costume and look menacing. Now, I'd be ALL for that, but that's allegedly the main reason. I wouldn't be totally shocked if they also wanted to keep the Jon Snow revival more of a shock by keeping the number of dead characters brought to life down to a minimum. They already have Beric and Gregor. Also, her story is intimately woven with the Riverlands; the show has abandoned that region entirely, a major mistake on their part. I think Stoneheart scenes should have been filmed way in advance during Season 3 to avoid this whole mess, but eh, at least it helps separate the show and the books, which IMO is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 She can talk a little bit if I remember correctly, just a word or two at a time. It's very difficult for her as she should be straight up dead ... A Revenant™ :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kit_hepburn Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I think that if they are moving the Riverlands plot to this season (depending what actually this supposed riverlands plot is, and it wont involve standing outside a castle) I think they probably moved it in order to make it fit in with other storylines and make sure all the pieces were in place to make it work. I think moving Jamie to Dorne was a good choice, if they'd written it better, and it certainly escalates his problems with Cercei, coming back with a dead daughter and her having just left jail. Having him start that break from her at this point makes a lot of sense. And then you can have the Riverlands plot possibly intersecting with the Northern Lords and the Iron Islands plot line, possibly including Sams dad in there as well, as well as Brienne with him. Plus there is simply the logistics issue of too many locations to film in, which might have been a problem in previous seasons. :agree: Yup. All of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 To make more room for Sansa in Winterfell. Maybe so... I don't mind Sansa taking Jeyne Poole's ancillary role, but I'm starting to tire of the rest of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 According to watcher on wall site: [spoiler]Arya is in the Riverlands next season, BWB,DB&DW version of LSH?[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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