MLB 2015: We Heart A-Rod

[Myshkin]

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell, but this isn't the first time. And if his employer seeks to fire him over it, I don't see that as being unreasonable or unjust at this point.

He's a contractor, not an employee, so it's not so simple as all that. This isn't analogous to some guy working at Walmart. But let's not pretend that Morena wants him gone out of some moral objection to his drug use; he wants him gone because he's owed a shit ton of money, and isn't producing at a level to be worth what he's owed. Let's not kid ourselves, if Hamilton were still batting north of .300, with 35-40 HRs, Arte Moreno would be his biggest supporter, and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

[Ramsay B.]

Let's not kid ourselves, if Hamilton were still batting north of .300, with 35-40 HRs, Arte Moreno would be his biggest supporter, and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

That's basically what CJ Wilson said of the situation.

Bottom line is Moreno is using Hamilton's admittance to relapsing as an excuse to release him and we all know that the real reason is because Hamilton isn't a superstar anymore. An expected move because this is a business but a dick move nonetheless.

[sperry]

THe thing I don't get is why Moreno feels the need to lie about it, which is making him and the franchise look awful.

Just say we will not tolerate drug use among our players, especially those with a history of substance abuse. Don't frame it in terms of wanting what's best for Hamilton, because it's such horseshit. If he'd come out and just said we aren't putting up with substance abuse, you are both justified in your stance and not lying.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

He's a contractor, not an employee, so it's not so simple as all that. This isn't analogous to some guy working at Walmart. But let's not pretend that Morena wants him gone out of some moral objection to his drug use; he wants him gone because he's owed a shit ton of money, and isn't producing at a level to be worth what he's owed. Let's not kid ourselves, if Hamilton were still batting north of .300, with 35-40 HRs, Arte Moreno would be his biggest supporter, and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Right, and if there is a provision in his contract regarding his sobriety, the Angels would have to be stupid not to exercise it at this point. Of course this is about on field production, but Hamilton has provided the Angels with an out. I'm supposed to feel bad for the guy?

[Myshkin]

But according to the MLBPA there are no such provisions, and can be no such provisions, precisely so that owners can't pull the shit Moreno's trying to pull.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

But according to the MLBPA there are no such provisions, and can be no such provisions, precisely so that owners can't pull the shit Moreno's trying to pull.

And if that's the case they should just shut up and eat the contract. I do however think it's bullshit that there can be no such provisions when you're talking about $123 million dollars, and a player who has a history of addiction issues.

[DanteGabriel]

And if that's the case they should just shut up and eat the contract. I do however think it's bullshit that there can be no such provisions when you're talking about $123 million dollars, and a player who has a history of addiction issues.

That's the risk you take when offering a player a long-term contract. Similarly, the Yankees shouldn't be allowed out of the monster contract they gave A-Rod when they knew exactly what he was.

[Myshkin]

THe thing I don't get is why Moreno feels the need to lie about it, which is making him and the franchise look awful.

Just say we will not tolerate drug use among our players, especially those with a history of substance abuse. Don't frame it in terms of wanting what's best for Hamilton, because it's such horseshit. If he'd come out and just said we aren't putting up with substance abuse, you are both justified in your stance and not lying.

But what happens when a few years from now it comes out that Mike Trout's a junkie? Think Moreno would try to cut him?

What I'm finding hard to understand about this situation is all the faux moral outrage (not talking really about this thread, but the general discussion going on across the Interwebz). What exactly did Hamilton do that was so abhorrent as to make so many people want to write him off as a human being? So he fell off the wagon. So what? It's a fairly common occurrence for an addict. And it probably won't be the last time. But by all accounts he got back on the wagon almost immediately. Which is a good sign. If his relapse had happened during the season, had affected his play, or gotten him suspended, I could see the argument from a business perspective. But none of that happened.

[Jaime L]

Every other major professional sport has put in mechanisms to protect owners from themselves (i.e.: salary cap, luxury tax etc.). Baseball's the only sport where teams can spend as much as they want on a player and it's all guaranteed. The richer teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and the Angels love this because it allows them to outbid everyone else for superstar talent. But this is the flip side of having that freedom. When the player starts declining, teams start freaking out about having to pay $20m/year for a guy who now sucks.

It's embarrassing seeing the lengths the Angels and Yankees have resorted to in an effort to avoiding paying guys they're contractually obligated to pay. Yes, you can say A-Rod cheated. You can say Hamilton's a substance abuser. Guess what? You know both those things before you gave them 9 figure contracts. Honestly, the real problem is that you gave $200m guaranteed to guys who are over the age of 30. You made a terrible business decision and now you're looking to for someone, anyone, to bail you out.

[Myshkin]

And if that's the case they should just shut up and eat the contract. I do however think it's bullshit that there can be no such provisions when you're talking about $123 million dollars, and a player who has a history of addiction issues.

This type of stuff would be covered by the JDA, which is why it can't be covered in individual contracts. If it could then the JDA would be meaningless. An independent arbitrator found that Hamilton did not violate the JDA (don't ask me how he arrived at that conclusion, as I don't know), hence no punishment.

[Myshkin]

Here's a good article explaining the contract situation.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Every other major professional sport has put in mechanisms to protect owners from themselves (i.e.: salary cap, luxury tax etc.). Baseball's the only sport where teams can spend as much as they want on a player and it's all guaranteed. The richer teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and the Angels love this because it allows them to outbid everyone else for superstar talent. But this is the flip side of having that freedom. When the player starts declining, teams start freaking out about having to pay $20m/year for a guy who now sucks.

It's embarrassing seeing the lengths the Angels and Yankees have resorted to in an effort to avoiding paying guys they're contractually obligated to pay. Yes, you can say A-Rod cheated. You can say Hamilton's a substance abuser. Guess what? You know both those things before you gave them 9 figure contracts. Honestly, the real problem is that you gave $200m guaranteed to guys who are over the age of 30. You made a terrible business decision and now you're looking to for someone, anyone, to bail you out.

I mostly agree, I'm not shedding any tears for the Angels here. I just think that Hamilton has more or less bailed them out, and the lack of personal responsibility and consequence is pretty sad.

This type of stuff would be covered by the JDA, which is why it can't be covered in individual contracts. If it could then the JDA would be meaningless. An independent arbitrator found that Hamilton did not violate the JDA (don't ask me how he arrived at that conclusion, as I don't know), hence no punishment.

I don't know any of the details regarding the arbitrator's decision either, so I should probably just keep my mouth shut. I understand that addicts should be given second chances. I agree with that, but when they get to their third and fourth violation, I kind of tune out.

[sperry]

But what happens when a few years from now it comes out that Mike Trout's a junkie? Think Moreno would try to cut him?

What I'm finding hard to understand about this situation is all the faux moral outrage (not talking really about this thread, but the general discussion going on across the Interwebz). What exactly did Hamilton do that was so abhorrent as to make so many people want to write him off as a human being? So he fell off the wagon. So what? It's a fairly common occurrence for an addict. And it probably won't be the last time. But by all accounts he got back on the wagon almost immediately. Which is a good sign. If his relapse had happened during the season, had affected his play, or gotten him suspended, I could see the argument from a business perspective. But none of that happened.

Of course it's all faux outrage, just like "outrage" about 99% of stuff on the internet is. There are internet weirdos out there that just "need" to be outraged about something. For every legitimate issue, there's hundreds where people are just making noise.

Sports just exacerbate it, where people are already inclined to be "against" anyone or anything that isn't "for" their own favorite sports team.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

This isn't moral outrage for me, it's more a matter of personal responsibility and common sense. I guess maybe I'm inserting too much personal experience into my opinion here. All I can say is it took losing a job I had for almost 15 years before I took my drug issue seriously. That was a bottom for me that no amount of denial could cushion. As long as there is no concrete consequence for Hamilton, he has no real motivation to deal seriously with his addiction.

[Myshkin]

This isn't moral outrage for me, it's more a matter of personal responsibility and common sense. I guess maybe I'm inserting to much personal experience into my opinion here. All I can say is it took losing a job I had for almost 15 years before I took my drug issue seriously. That was a bottom for me that no amount of denial could cushion. As long as there is no concrete consequence for Hamilton, he has no real motivation to deal seriously with his addiction.

I think you're assuming that he's not dealing seriously with his addiction already. Relapsing does not in any way suggest that he's not serious about his sobriety; it only suggests that he's struggling with it. I too have had my issues with addiction, both personal and familial, and from my own experiences I don't see how the type of consequences you're talking about will benefit Hamilton at all. Losing his career over this slip up would probably be very bad for his sobriety.

[Ramsay B.]

This isn't moral outrage for me, it's more a matter of personal responsibility and common sense. I guess maybe I'm inserting to much personal experience into my opinion here. All I can say is it took losing a job I had for almost 15 years before I took my drug issue seriously. That was a bottom for me that no amount of denial could cushion. As long as there is no concrete consequence for Hamilton, he has no real motivation to deal seriously with his addiction.

I get what your saying, and I have dealt with bad drug issues in the past also, but how do you know if Hamiltion is taking his drug issues serious or not? Just because he won't lose his job/salary over it doesn't mean that he has no real motivation.

[Myshkin]

On a different topic, it looks like the Diamondbacks have have once again forced paying Dodger fans to wear D'Backs gear. What a bunch of petty dicks.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Yeah, you two (Myshkin and Ramsay) are probably right. I don't know how seriously Hamilton is taking his issue. I just know what it took for me to wake up to my issue. Losing that job was really a blessing in disguise for me.

[GrimTuesday]

So Nelson Cruz is fun, right guys?

[Ramsay B.]

So Nelson Cruz is fun, right guys?

2 times!