Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Now I have mentioned it before in other threads but I would like to discuss it separately from the others. I don’t know if it has been suggested before if it does I am sorry but I cannot find it. Also my English are hopelessly dead today and I am not sure if the way I wrote it makes any sense. Moving on"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." We swear it by ice and fire. Now we have heard about the ice and fire but what it really means?We know that the Wall is made by different kind of spells. My theory is that the Wall is created by two different kinds of spells. The spells of Ice and the spells of Fire. The ice is the ice spells which *hold* the Wall together, ice preserves, and fire spells are those which keep the Others away, fire consumes. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. The NW’s brothers are the watchers on a Wall which is made by ice and the fire that guard the humanity. The one person who will be able to lead the Wall will be the Prince that was promised to safe the humanity and we all know who leads the Wall right now. So Rhaegar was talking for someone who will be able to *handle* both the spells of ice and the spells of fire. And the reason that the Reeds are using those exact words is because their magic comes from the CotFs who created the Wall. What do you think? Also tell me if it is too crackpot in order to put [crackpot] at the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A horsefaced girl Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Not really sure about the fire spells. Do you think the wall keeps dragons from flying north. I know that Queen Alysanne visited the wall but is there any mention of dragons going north of the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make Shadowbabies Not War Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Interesting OP. This is something that crossed my mind a couple of times before, mainly stemming from the fact that Melisandre's power grew at the wall in ADWD. That said, I'm still not really sure about the idea, and considered it crackpot myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Not really sure about the fire spells. Do you think the wall keeps dragons from flying north. I know that Queen Alysanne visited the wall but is there any mention of dragons going north of the wall? I am not saying that the fire spells are used to protect the Wall from the dragons. But the fire and the ice spells were used to create the Wall. Interesting OP. This is something that crossed my mind a couple of times before, mainly stemming from the fact that Melisandre's power grew at the wall in ADWD. That said, I'm still not really sure about the idea, and considered it crackpot myself. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion's Whiskers Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 The Wall contains powerful magic and there are hints that it is connected to both ice and fire. We also have Jon's dream of him standing alone on top of the Wall in black armor (dragonglass??) We know that the dragonglass kills the Others, so there is some connection. The theory isn't crackpot, but there are not many clues as to what GRRM has planned. The Reed's oath has always been of interest to me as well and it stands to reason that it has something to do with what is going to happen. We need the Winds of Winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 bump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 BUMP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aderyn Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Yup, interesting OP. I think I've seen this discussed somewhere here before and have often wondered it myself. I've also found the mention about Mel's powers growing very interesting. Could the Wall be an intersection point to more than just these two powers? How about the magic of the CotF (I like to call it 'green magic')? My memory fails me here but is there any indication that Jon's warging powers have been growing at the Wall / in the (proper) north? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Not really sure about the fire spells. Do you think the wall keeps dragons from flying north. I know that Queen Alysanne visited the wall but is there any mention of dragons going north of the wall? Didn't king Jaehaerys I fight some wildlings with his dragon north of the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicAndTheSquidSquad Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I am not saying that the fire spells are used to protect the Wall from the dragons. But the fire and the ice spells were used to create the Wall. If the fire spells are against the others then the ice spells are against dragons IMO.They separate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rahloo Connington Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 The Wall contains powerful magic and there are hints that it is connected to both ice and fire. We also have Jon's dream of him standing alone on top of the Wall in black armor (dragonglass??) We know that the dragonglass kills the Others, so there is some connection. The theory isn't crackpot, but there are not many clues as to what GRRM has planned. The Reed's oath has always been of interest to me as well and it stands to reason that it has something to do with what is going to happen. We need the Winds of WinterJon's dream is made so much more interesting if you consider the fact that dragon glass is referred to as frozen fire by some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 There might be a stone wall at its core, under all the ice, which has been rumored in the books although I cannot recall who said it and where. If the wall has fire magic built into it (a very distinct possibility in my opinion, not crackpot at all), it would likely be because this stone is fused black stone, as the Valyrians made with dragon fire and spellcraft. The Valyrians were not the first to build with this, though, as we know from the fortress on Battle Isle at the base of the Hightower. Bran the Builder is associated with the upper levels of the Hightower, built on top of the fused stone fortress, but it's not a huge stretch to associate him with the fused stone itself, or to suppose that the ancient dragon lords who built it may have built other structures in Westeros. The other place with similar wards to the wall is Storms End, another construction associated with BtB. We don't know what's at the heart of that fortress, as it's been added on to after the Andals arrived. Also, the tunnels under Castle Black are called worm walks, which calls to mind firewyrms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Jon's dream is made so much more interesting if you consider the fact that dragon glass is referred to as frozen fire by some.I don't tend to think that black ice reopresents dragonglass, since it's... well, ice, and not fire. Jon is ice and fire, and should have both. The black ice makes another appearance in a Jon chapter in ADWD, and again next to red fire:Jon Snow turned away. The last light of the sun had begun to fade. He watched the cracks along the Wall go from red to grey to black, from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice. Down below, Lady Melisandre would be lighting her nightfire and chanting, Lord of Light, defend us, for the night is dark and full of terrors . Winter is coming, Jon said at last, breaking the awkward silence, and with it the white walkers. The Wall is where we stop them. The Wall was made to stop them but the Wall must be manned.JON, ADWDNote that the blue rose in Dany's vision grows in a chink in the ice, and here the Wall is weeping, meaning water is running in the cracks and creating this allusion of red fire and rovers of black ice. It's easy to draw the correlation and say that the red fire and black ice represents Jon himself, in some way. Considering that he is a child of ice and fire, it make sense that his weapons and armor are ice and fire. That's why the black ice probably isn't an obsidian reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Also, the tunnels under Castle Black are called worm walks, which calls to mind firewyrms. Or the mazes of the mazemakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratbane Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 In regards to Mel's powers increasing at the wall, it may well be that while magic manifests itself in specific categories like fire or ice the basic thing that powers all of it is the same. Think of it like electricity. It can power both heaters and refrigeration units. Perhaps magic is the same. Although the Wall seems to be a creation of Ice magic it may be that those who can control the magic of Fire can essentially "plug in" to the current as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Bran - a song of iceDany - a song of fireJon - a song of ice and fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It's an interesting idea, but those bits you pointed out in the nights watch vows (I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn) and an additional one "I am the sword in the darkness" relate to the nights watch being Jon snows lightbringer, that he "wields".But wouldn't the ice and fire magic cancel one another out?One consumes and one preserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 But wouldn't the ice and fire magic cancel one another out? No you see, that is the song. The *mating* between ice and fire brings the balance and creates the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 No you see, that is the song. The *mating* between ice and fire brings the balance and creates the song.agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 bump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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