Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hello everyone,So, Ned beheads a member of the Night's Watch fleeing south, and a little while after gets killed in King's Landing, which is a surprise because he thought he was going to be sent off to the Wall.Then Robb beheads Richard Karstark, and a little while after gets killed by surprise at the Red Wedding while under the laws of hospitality.Now Jon beheads Lord Janos Slynt and a little while after gets stabbed by surprise by his sworn brothers...Is it just me, or is the (Stark) Beheader accursed in the eyes of the gods ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Pup From Astapor Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 The Mountain beheads his horse, and a while later dies from poison and gets revived presumably without his head. Maybe it's a general curse, not just Starks! Lets see what happens to Ilyn Payne in the next books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 You're right, the Moutain is also victim of the curse ! As for Ilyn Payne, maybe he paid his due BEFORE he became the King's Justice, when they tore his tongue out ? The gods thought "well he's suffered already, let him behead whoever he wants now"... How merciful of them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Seriously though, this is a theme - and Theon's also in it. The question is, between Ned's clean but unjust kill, Theon's horrendous mess founded on injustice, Robb's just but ominous, cursed lordly blood-spattering, and Jon's clean, just kill, ...does the karmic punishment fit the crime? The answer is yes, sort of; Ned's execution is also an unjust stitch-up, Theon's fate is utterly messy, Robb's illustrates the strict justice and lack of realpolitik that helps to undo him, and Jon (yawn, but you have to hand it to him) is probably just suffering a temporary setback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Theon does pay the high price for his mess... Do you believe Ramsay's madness will get him to pay an even higher price ? He may (arguably) be doing "justice" by torturing Theon, but what about all the women he hunts and the people of Winterfell he murdered ? And will Roose pay only for the Red Wedding, or will he also suffer for his bastard's crimes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 When does Theon behead someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Acolyte of Radmure,Theon never does : Slender Aimry Hill is just going one step further in the reasoning stating there seems to be some Karma in all this. If so, what about the sufferings endured by Jeyne (it rhymes with pain) for example ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Ned's death was so far removed from the beheading I don't know how you can connect those two incidents. If there was a consistency in the types of death, the timing between the beheadings and their own death, or something else you may have a point. Otherwise I think it's just coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 When does Theon behead someone?I think somebody got mixed up with the show where they made Theon look like Robb, unable to whack the head clean off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Ned's death was a few months after the beheading of the member of the Night's Watch, true, but it was a short time after he killed Lady... And as he killed her with Ice, maybe he beheaded her... Then the beheading curse hit him ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Theon beheads Farlen the Winterfell kennelmaster in the books, and makes a hash of it. He's blaming Farlen for the murders of Ironborn he (it is strongly implied) knows were committed by Reek (ie Ramsay). In the show, of course, it becomes Ser Rodrik. 'He could not let the killings go unpunished. Farlen was as likely a suspect as any, so Theon sat in judgment, called him guilty, and condemned him to death. Even that went sour. As he went to the block, the kennelmaster said, "M'lord Eddard always did his own killings." Theon had to take the axe himself or look a weakling. His hands were sweating, so the shaft twisted in his grip as he swung and the first blow landed between Farlen's shoulders. It took three more cuts to hack through all that bone and muscle and sever the head from the body, and afterward he was sick, remembering all the times they'd sat over a cup of mead talking of hounds and hunting. I had no choice, he wanted to scream at the corpse. The ironborn can't keep secrets, they had to die, and someone had to take the blame for it. He only wished he had killed him cleaner. Ned Stark had never needed more than a single blow to take a man's head.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Theon beheads Farlen the Winterfell kennelmaster in the books, and makes a hash of it. He's blaming Farlen for the murders of Ironborn he (it is strongly implied) knows were committed by Ramsay Bolton. In the show, of course, it becomes Ser Rodrik. You're right, I had forgotten about this part... Well Theon does suffer from the Beheader's Curse !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Theon beheads Farlen the Winterfell kennelmaster in the books, and makes a hash of it. He's blaming Farlen for the murders of Ironborn he (it is strongly implied) knows were committed by Reek (ie Ramsay). In the show, of course, it becomes Ser Rodrik. 'He could not let the killings go unpunished. Farlen was as likely a suspect as any, so Theon sat in judgment, called him guilty, and condemned him to death. Even that went sour. As he went to the block, the kennelmaster said, "M'lord Eddard always did his own killings." Theon had to take the axe himself or look a weakling. His hands were sweating, so the shaft twisted in his grip as he swung and the first blow landed between Farlen's shoulders. It took three more cuts to hack through all that bone and muscle and sever the head from the body, and afterward he was sick, remembering all the times they'd sat over a cup of mead talking of hounds and hunting. I had no choice, he wanted to scream at the corpse. The ironborn can't keep secrets, they had to die, and someone had to take the blame for it. He only wished he had killed him cleaner. Ned Stark had never needed more than a single blow to take a man's head.'Thanks. That was bugging me. Robb had trouble too, didn't he? Jon was the only one who managed it clean, right? But he had Valyrian steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thanks. That was bugging me. Robb had trouble too, didn't he? Jon was the only one who managed it clean, right? But he had Valyrian steel."The axe crashed down. Heavy and well-honed, it killed at a single blow, but it took three to sever the man's head from his body, and by the time it was done both living and dead were drenched in blood. Robb flung the poleaxe down in disgust, and turned wordless to the heart tree. He stood shaking with his hands half-clenched and the rain running down his cheeks."Valyrian steel does help to make a clean cut, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byfort of Corfe Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 In reality headsmen almost never took a head with a single blow from an axe. It's why Ann Boleyn requested to be beheaded with a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Ilyn Payne is exempt, because its his specific job. The rest, yea, there is definitely some beheading karma at work in ASoIaF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georginette RR Martine Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 The rest, yea, there is definitely some beheading karma at work in ASoIaF.Could it mean that Jon isn't just going to say "ouch you hurt me but now I'm fine" after getting stabbed ? Because the other beheaders' fates aren't so quiet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lommy's Shade Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Ilyn Payne is exempt, because its his specific job.The rest, yea, there is definitely some beheading karma at work in ASoIaF. Ilyn swung the sword, but of course, it was Joffrey who gave the order. And we all know what happened to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 There's no curse. Are we reading the same books? People die. Lots of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Lord of Bones cut off Ebons head I think, right? Maybe not, it was a small passage and I haven't read it for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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