Tobho Mott

[Clegane'sPup]

AGOT chapter 27 or Eddard 6:

The man they wanted was all the way at the top of the hill, in a huge house of timber and plaster whose upper stories loomed over the narrow street. The double doors showed a hunting scene carved in ebony and weirwood. A pair of stone knights stood sentry at the entrance, armored in fanciful suits of polished red steel that transformed them into griffin and unicorn.

AFFC chapter 6 or Arya I:

Arya notes that there are no trees on Braavos. At the top she found a set of carved wooden doors 12 feet high. The left hand door was made of weirwood pale as bone, the right of gleaming ebony. In their center was a carved moon face; ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony.

Could Tobho Mott in Kings Landing be an compliance to the dealings of the House of Black and White of Braavos?

Also of interest to me is that the WF crypt door is made of ironwood. Ironwood is described as the color of ebony.

[bemused]

I definitely see Tobho as connected to the HoB&W in some way, perhaps even as a sort of bureau chief in KL.. there are many subtle hints besides the doors .

Tobho wears a sapphire "as large as a pigeon's egg" and I do think that sapphires have been pretty clearly associated with deception in the books.. So there is some big deception about him.. something hidden. He also has a quiet and unobtrusive serving girl (reminiscent of the waif?). His house is "huge" and it's "upper stories loomed over the narrow street" as the upper stories of houses in Braavos lean out over the canals.

No family is mentioned for him, so why such a huge house ? He may just love ostentation.. Some of his journeymen and apprentices, at least, may lodge with him... but it might also be to accommodate "guests" appearing now and then... and some of the rooms may be smaller versions of the various storerooms in the HoB&W.

I'm not sure if there's anything to be made of the red armour, apart from advertising the fact that, as he he later says, red is the most difficult colour to work into the steel .. and I'm not sure about the unicorn and griffon.. Perhaps Jon Connington had ordered armour from him , prior to his banishment? ..Whose arms sport a unicorn? ( possible wild guesses).

His clothes are black with silver embroidery (silver is a "white" metal )..??

FM are known for discretion (secrecy). Tobho's discretion has been relied on.. yet he gives quite a bit of information to Ned.. OTOH, he doesn't know how much Ned already knows .. and if he's connected to the HoB&W, he probably wants to know more about Ned..

For those who think Syrio was a FM ( or suspect he might have been) Tobho would be someone who could have placed Syrio as close as possible to the new Hand (who inconveniently kept only his own household around him) He may have suggested Syrio. ..If Ned sent one of his men out enquire after a specific type of sword instructor, who better to ask for recommendations than the foremost Armourer in KL ?

The hunting scenes on his doors may be a subtle clue for us, about the way FM "hunt" for information - apart from their role as assassins.

[LmL]

Yes I've wondered about this wierwood and ebony door connection for a long time. The house leaning over the street is a good catch, seems like a nod to Bravos. I don;t think the griffin and unicorn relate to specific people - fAegon doesn't make sense here and its House Brax with the unicorn, not very relevant. It probably has some mythological connotation, or else they are both simply just fearsome and fanciful creatures which are not dragons - dragons having their own connotation already, or course.

Another related question may the old "what was Jaquen Hagar doing in the black cells?" It's interesting if Tobho is a FM wayhouse, that kind of makes sense. Are there any other things connecting Jaquen to Tobho? Any symbolism or turn of phrase?

[Lost Melnibonean]

I was convinced he was Izembarro until

Mercy.

[RumHam]

I don't think there's any connection, they're just two types of wood that are sometimes used together for contrast. There is another instance of doors like this, in the House of the Undying Ones

Finally the stair opened. To her right, a set of wide wooden doors had been thrown open. They were fashioned of ebony and weirwood, the black and white grains swirling and twisting in strange interwoven patterns. They were very beautiful, yet somehow frightening. The blood of the dragon must not be afraid. Dany said a quick prayer, begging the Warrior for courage and the Dothraki horse god for strength. She made herself walk forward.

[Isobel Harper]

AGOT chapter 27 or Eddard 6:

The man they wanted was all the way at the top of the hill, in a huge house of timber and plaster whose upper stories loomed over the narrow street. The double doors showed a hunting scene carved in ebony and weirwood. A pair of stone knights stood sentry at the entrance, armored in fanciful suits of polished red steel that transformed them into griffin and unicorn.

AFFC chapter 6 or Arya I:

Arya notes that there are no trees on Braavos. At the top she found a set of carved wooden doors 12 feet high. The left hand door was made of weirwood pale as bone, the right of gleaming ebony. In their center was a carved moon face; ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony.

Could Tobho Mott in Kings Landing be an compliance to the dealings of the House of Black and White of Braavos?

Also of interest to me is that the WF crypt door is made of ironwood. Ironwood is described as the color of ebony.

It might be that Tobho is from Braavos - as his name does seem to be foreign - and uses ebony and weirwood in honor of his religion from his home. A Southron Westerosi with a smithing shop in Braavos, for example, might have a seven-pointed star on their entrance way. The House of Black and White has cultural significance in Braavos, and The Seven has cultural significance in Southron court in Westeros.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It might be that Tobho is from Braavos - as his name does seem to be foreign - and uses ebony and weirwood in honor of his religion from his home. A Southron Westerosi with a smithing shop in Braavos, for example, might have a seven-pointed star on their entrance way. The House of Black and White has cultural significance in Braavos, and The Seven has cultural significance in Southron court in Westeros.

Since he can work Valyrian steel, isn't he from Qohor?

[Isobel Harper]

Since he can work Valyrian steel, isn't he from Qohor?

AGoT, Eddard VI:

Tobho had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy.

You might be right; I'm not sure how possible it would be that a Braavosi boy would train in Qohor. :dunno:

[aryagonnakill#2]

Qohor guards its secrets jelously, there is no chance they trained an outsider.

[LmL]

No other armorer in the city could get that deep a green; he knew the secret of putting color in the steel itself, paint and enamel were the crutches of a journeyman. Or mayhaps the Hand wanted a blade? Tobho had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy. Only a man who knew the spells could take old weapons and forge them anew. “The direwolf is the sigil of House Stark, is it not? I could fashion a direwolf helm so real that children will run from you in the street,” he vowed.

[Isobel Harper]

A bit off topic, but this is an interesting bit of foreshadowing given that Tobho Mott was the smith who would rework Eddard's sword Ice into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper.

[Good Guy Garlan]

*tinfoil hat on*

If he is indeed a FM, then it's quite possible that he knows how to do glamours. If so, he could've kept the real Ice and given Tywin a couple of fake swords, glamoured to look like Valyrian steel. We know Mel put a similar glamour on Lightbringer, and rubies are present in glamoured things, even Mance had one.

*tinfoil hat off*

[LmL]

A bit off topic, but this is an interesting bit of foreshadowing given that Tobho Mott was the smith who would rework Eddard's sword Ice into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper.

ah that's quite true :)

[bemused]

You might be right; I'm not sure how possible it would be that a Braavosi boy would train in Qohor. :dunno:

Qohor guards its secrets jelously, there is no chance they trained an outsider.

But we know the FM will train an outsider. And it appears to be unusual for them to train children (Arya is an exception rather than the rule). So Tobho could have come to them after having become an armourer. Like Arya, as a boy, he could have been quick to learn... something of a prodigy.

[LmL]

But we know the FM will train an outsider. And it appears to be unusual for them to train children (Arya is an exception rather than the rule). So Tobho could have come to them after having become an armourer. Like Arya, as a boy, he could have been quick to learn... something of a prodigy.

Tobho learned in Qhohor as a boy, so he was not an armorer prior to this training. It's overwhelmingly likely that he is from Qhohor, if he learned there as a boy. Otherwise he would have a truly fantastic backstory about being abducted as a child and sold to Qhohoric blacksmith or something. Lacking any suggestions that he is not from Qhohor, it's probably a safe assumption that he is. And TWOIAF really does make a big deal out of the fact that Qhohor guards it secrets very jealously, upon pain of death.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Bemused, I think you misunderstood my point, I was simply saying he must have originally been from Qohor.

Floppy Fish, I think Brienne would have noticed if her Valyrian steal sword had gotten chipped in her fighting.

[bemused]

Aryagonna..

Oh, I understood you ... and I agree.(Maybe I'm not making myself clear :) ) I think Tobho is originally from Qohor.

More evidence might be - though we don't have many Qohorik examples to check out, his name is "of a kind" with Vargo Hoat's..2 syllable first name ending in "o"..single syllable last name... The "o" name ending denoting masculinity seems common in the free cities, but not universal.. e.g., apparently not in Lorath (though,again only 2 examples ) - Jaqen and Qarlon the great ..

(Search is not working right now, so from here on, I'm relying on memory) ,, Tyrosh seems to have at least some "o" male name endings (Daario ... but hmmm to the double "a").. Norvos might have "o" for male or female (Mellario, Areo) ..and so on.. But we have many examples from Braavos and the male "o" seems universal for Braavosi male given names (Syrio ,Phario,Tycho, Brusco, Tagganaro, etc.,etc.) while "a" seems more common for females, (Brea,Daena) and last names would appear to be generally more than one syllable. (Forel, Reyaan, Nestoris..etc.)

and Lucifer.. My intended meaning was that obviously , even though Qohor may guard it's secrets well.. it can't stop some trained armourers from leaving..otherwise we wouldn't find Tobho in KL. .. and he is training others in his art. IIRC ,even Gendry had some bit of experience in working Valyrian steel.

I meant that as a boy in Qohor , he may have shown some prodigious talent .. just as Arya does in Braavos at the HoB&W. He may have become a master craftsman quite young. He may have offered to serve Him of Many Faces as an adult.. and may have received FM training..or may not be a FM himself. There are many ways to serve... e.g., Brusco seems to know he's providing a service... Izembaro may or may not.. and we've seen no proof that the waif works as a FM (or even the Kindly Man, for that matter.)

[RobertRivers]

I definitely see Tobho as connected to the HoB&W in some way, perhaps even as a sort of bureau chief in KL.. there are many subtle hints besides the doors .

Tobho wears a sapphire "as large as a pigeon's egg" and I do think that sapphires have been pretty clearly associated with deception in the books...

I think you're thinking of emeralds. I remember a thread from my lurking days that found every mention of emeralds and there like 1 time where they coldnt figure out what the deception or lie was or whatever.

They are sometimes connected with brienne though, and she did get a sword he reforged.

[LmL]

Aryagonna..

Oh, I understood you ... and I agree.(Maybe I'm not making myself clear :) ) I think Tobho is originally from Qohor.

More evidence might be - though we don't have many Qohorik examples to check out, his name is "of a kind" with Vargo Hoat's..2 syllable first name ending in "o"..single syllable last name... The "o" name ending denoting masculinity seems common in the free cities, but not universal.. e.g., apparently not in Lorath (though,again only 2 examples ) - Jaqen and Qarlon the great ..

(Search is not working right now, so from here on, I'm relying on memory) ,, Tyrosh seems to have at least some "o" male name endings (Daario ... but hmmm to the double "a").. Norvos might have "o" for male or female (Mellario, Areo) ..and so on.. But we have many examples from Braavos and the male "o" seems universal for Braavosi male given names (Syrio ,Phario,Tycho, Brusco, Tagganaro, etc.,etc.) while "a" seems more common for females, (Brea,Daena) and last names would appear to be generally more than one syllable. (Forel, Reyaan, Nestoris..etc.)

and Lucifer.. My intended meaning was that obviously , even though Qohor may guard it's secrets well.. it can't stop some trained armourers from leaving..otherwise we wouldn't find Tobho in KL. .. and he is training others in his art. IIRC ,even Gendry had some bit of experience in working Valyrian steel.

I meant that as a boy in Qohor , he may have shown some prodigious talent .. just as Arya does in Braavos at the HoB&W. He may have become a master craftsman quite young. He may have offered to serve Him of Many Faces as an adult.. and may have received FM training..or may not be a FM himself. There are many ways to serve... e.g., Brusco seems to know he's providing a service... Izembaro may or may not.. and we've seen no proof that the waif works as a FM (or even the Kindly Man, for that matter.)

Gotchya. Yeah that all sounds right to me.

Do we have anyevicdence of Gnedry learning anything about V steel? I would love that if so... I can't recall reading that though.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think you're thinking of emeralds. I remember a thread from my lurking days that found every mention of emeralds and there like 1 time where they coldnt figure out what the deception or lie was or whatever.

They are sometimes connected with brienne though, and she did get a sword he reforged.

There are two theories. One is that emeralds signal a usurper, and the other is that sapphires signal a deceit.