Rohlin_the_Wretched Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 He's dead Jim! There is simply no reason for him to be alive anymore. If there was any hope left for Stannis, why is Melisandre riding off to Castle Black? To the Stannis lovers out there, he is gone just deal with it. When he burnt his own daughter, he sealed his fate and I am sure this means that he loses the Battle of Ice in the book as well. No use keeping a character around that has no arc left. Stannis already tried to rally the north and failed, the mercs have headed south and won't return to follow a child burner and he has lost his Hand and Red Witch. I think it was a lesson, when you bet everything, you lose everything! My opinion is no one is going to win the Game of Thrones, the vision in the House of Undying was very telling. No one on the throne and it covered in snow. Not a very happy ending. I think the remaining factions in Kings Landing will go to war with each other and maybe Cersei will do something the Mad King failed to do ... burn them all! Dany is going to be occupied fighting White Walkers and there is really no one else who can take the throne. Peter Baelish is going to make a mistake with Sansa or she will simply find out Baelish was responsible for killing her father and Sansa will kill Peter. There are no other realistic players left in the game. Boltons? The Brotherhood or Northerners have their number and Stannis took some of their forces with him. The Greyjoys ... meh! Robin Arryn ... bahaha! And Dorne would rather stay far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 He's dead Jim! There is simply no reason for him to be alive anymore. If there was any hope left for Stannis, why is Melisandre riding off to Castle Black? To the Stannis lovers out there, he is gone just deal with it. When he burnt his own daughter, he sealed his fate and I am sure this means that he loses the Battle of Ice in the book as well. No use keeping a character around that has no arc left. Stannis already tried to rally the north and failed, the mercs have headed south and won't return to follow a child burner and he has lost his Hand and Red Witch. I think it was a lesson, when you bet everything, you lose everything! My opinion is no one is going to win the Game of Thrones, the vision in the House of Undying was very telling. No one on the throne and it covered in snow. Not a very happy ending. I think the remaining factions in Kings Landing will go to war with each other and maybe Cersei will do something the Mad King failed to do ... burn them all! Dany is going to be occupied fighting White Walkers and there is really no one else who can take the throne. Peter Baelish is going to make a mistake with Sansa or she will simply find out Baelish was responsible for killing her father and Sansa will kill Peter. There are no other realistic players left in the game. Boltons? The Brotherhood or Northerners have their number and Stannis took some of their forces with him. The Greyjoys ... meh! Robin Arryn ... bahaha! And Dorne would rather stay far away. Lol, you think the show is a good barometer for the books? The show is the show, and if anything Martin's indicating that the end will be vastly different, including the Battle of Ice. Why, you may ask? Well because of the Theon chapter. Everything the Bolton's are throwing at him, Stannis has been made aware of. There are no surprises on the Bolton side. We've seen and heard their big plan. Whereas Stannis is hinting at a big plan of his own, and unlike the TV version which talks up his skills in battle but then conveniently forgets to show him actually using them, the book character is still a consummately skilled tactician and strategist. ShowStannis had a much larger army supplied by Braavosi coin to fight the Wildlings. Stannis took a much smaller, less well supplied and provisioned force on an epic journey and managed the same result. If anything his position is actually stronger now because he's got half the north openly backing him and a quarter more secretly backing him, plus the support of the Iron bank in the long-term. Plus, and this is a big one, the Boltons are far from secure internally. They are sitting side by side with a host of northerners who want them dead, who crave them dead. Roose, in his own creepy calm way predicts this, and whether his plan is simply to see if he can win before the slaughter starts or get Ramsay killed then make a separate peace for the sake of his unborn heir with Walda, we'll see. So anyways, long story short, expect no real spoilers from the show. They've diverged so completely that its a different story at this point, with a different outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 No, it isn't. I guarantee you that Stannis Baratheon will be dead at the end of the books. I guarantee you that Baristan Selmy will be dead at the end of the books. And Jojen Reed. I have a hard time seeing how Stannis loses the Battle of Ice or Battle of Winterfell, but we can't any longer say it won't happen. We can say it is likely that he may win those battles and die later on. But, despite their inconsistencies, errors, and everything else, contained in the rant and rave threads, the show has historically hit all the main plot points. Only this year did it diverge and speed up some elements. Don't fool yourself to say that there are and will not be any real spoilers in the show, they may be bastardized, dumbed down, illogical and semi crazy, but the spoilers will still be in there. The end will still be the same for the major players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The skin of Stannis's corpse will be paraded around Winterfell next season by the great Ramsay Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The skin of Stannis's corpse will be paraded around Winterfell next season by the great Ramsay Bolton. Nah pretty sure he is going to wear it, when he is shirtless and killing the Night's King, alongside 20 good men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Steelsong Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The words of David Nutter. Yes cause the show is shy about gratuitous deaths. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Nah pretty sure he is going to wear it, when he is shirtless and killing the Night's King, alongside 20 good men.It will be part of his trophy collection. The first of many. Next season will be Yohn Royce and Littlefinger after they get rekt by Ramsay and 20 good men outside of Moat Cailin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Stannis and Jon are dead . . . . it is up to Davos and Mel to save the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It will be part of his trophy collection. The first of many. Next season will be Yohn Royce and Littlefinger after they get rekt by Ramsay and 20 good men outside of Moat Cailin. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cade Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 No, it isn't. I guarantee you that Stannis Baratheon will be dead at the end of the books. I guarantee you that Baristan Selmy will be dead at the end of the books. And Jojen Reed. I have a hard time seeing how Stannis loses the Battle of Ice or Battle of Winterfell, but we can't any longer say it won't happen. We can say it is likely that he may win those battles and die later on. But, despite their inconsistencies, errors, and everything else, contained in the rant and rave threads, the show has historically hit all the main plot points. Only this year did it diverge and speed up some elements. Don't fool yourself to say that there are and will not be any real spoilers in the show, they may be bastardized, dumbed down, illogical and semi crazy, but the spoilers will still be in there. The end will still be the same for the major players. But the show hasn't hit the major plot points. From Daenerys under siege in Meereen, to the politics of the northern lords to the Dornish plan to revive the Targaryens, to Aegon "the likely Fake" and the Golden Company invading, to the Brotherhood and its new policy of Frey cleansing. These are all major and important plot points the show's jettisoned. They're talking up Euron and the Greyjoy's reappearing in Season 6. The whole reason someone like Ramsay could take Moat Cailin at all was because Victarion withdrew the bulk of his men for the kingsmoot. In show its just inexplicably manned by like 20 guys, because...reasons. The show has ceased being relevant to the book plot. It was hitting major plot points early on but it has diverged so much the major plot points no longer make any sense, therefore they're going to have to change them or just waltz on with a plot that's got more leaks than the Iraqi navy (to borrow something from a movie I just watched ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It sure looked like a cheesy cop out on Sunday night when Brienne's sword chopped air yielding no blood, body parts or groans. I think that a character of Stannis' relevance needs ('deserves' is a bad word, but it feels like the right one) a definitive death scene. Clearly the fact that he appears in TWoW is irrelevant - I understand that Marcella and Selmey will both be in there. I dunno. The scene was filmed and aired and they have to stand behind it. Coming back next season with 'Brienne slipped and then didn't finish the job because of an errant wildling attack or whathaveyou' would drag this show down further. Stannis is dead - as dead as Selmey or Marcella anyway and he should not be brought back.Really the way this last season went it should move down the dial into a regular cable show with commercials and product placements. Hopefully next year comes with a little redemption, but if TWoW comes out at the same time I might not even bother watching until I've read the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calo760 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Maybe we are all suppose to be rooting for the Night King and the night that will never end. Seems to be going that direction. But didn't Asha Greyjoy have pretty a very identical scene in the books, where one of Stannis' soldiers swings his sword down on Asha, leaving you thinking she's dead, later to find out the sword hit the tree and she was taken prisoner? t's been a while since i have read it but i think that's how it went down. Could be what will happen in this case.. I just hope Brienne doesn't take Stannis to the Boltons in exchange for Sansa. I definitely like the fact that he wasn't flayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bird of Varys Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I have a theory about the show and the next season involving Stannis... D & D are afraid proceed without the text of GRRM (my opinion) so it will continue with many events of A Dance with Dragons next season. Including the history of the Iron Born. So I think Stannis going to get to raise a northern army and capture Asha/Yara when she left again for the North (Theon rescue again?) after losing the crown of IB. He can decide to leave R'hllor after so many disasters, so vontando to be himself (NO Satannis). Perhaps a large northern conspiracy happen? Well, I did not follow the whole season and I am not good in english, so can ignore this post... I don't want to give false hope to the fans of Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 But the show hasn't hit the major plot points. From Daenerys under siege in Meereen, to the politics of the northern lords to the Dornish plan to revive the Targaryens, to Aegon "the likely Fake" and the Golden Company invading, to the Brotherhood and its new policy of Frey cleansing. These are all major and important plot points the show's jettisoned. They're talking up Euron and the Greyjoy's reappearing in Season 6. The whole reason someone like Ramsay could take Moat Cailin at all was because Victarion withdrew the bulk of his men for the kingsmoot. In show its just inexplicably manned by like 20 guys, because...reasons. The show has ceased being relevant to the book plot. It was hitting major plot points early on but it has diverged so much the major plot points no longer make any sense, therefore they're going to have to change them or just waltz on with a plot that's got more leaks than the Iraqi navy (to borrow something from a movie I just watched ;) ) You're wrong. The siege of Meereen is meaningless. Everything that happens in Meereen is essentially meaningless which is why they stripped out Astapor and Yunkai and Volantis, and why presumably, she will get the Dothraki, somehow leave Meereen and finally get her ass to Westeros. Aegon also is not important or he would be in the show. Arianne is not important or she would be in the show. But something about Dorne is important, I think, as they've devoted a fair amount of cast there. But we don't really know what it is, whether they fight against Dany as we assume from the books, or kill more Lannisters or destabilize KL or what. Oldtown is important because Sam and Gilly are going there, none of their adventures on the boat were, so that is cut. Euron must be important or they wouldnt' be casting him. I admit I'm mystified by the absence of anyone in the North, I believe they may circle back to the riverlands next season, Walder Frey supposedly is back. Work backwards from the main players. Where was everyone at the end of Dance: Jon: stabbed/same. Arya: house of black/white/same Bran: far north/same Tyrion: essos/arc speeded up to meet Dany/almost the same Dany: meets the Dothraki with Drogon/sameCersei: awaiting trial/same Sansa: far North/different/probable move up of story **Of these major players everyone is where they were in the books, we know Tyrion eventually meets Dany, so the only story that is fundamentally different is Sansa's. Secondary: Cersei: awaiting trial/same Marg: awaiting trial/same Sam: oldtown/same Rickon: off with Osha/same Mel: at the wall/same Tommen: king/same Theon: jumped/will not obviously end up w/Stannis Asha: MIA *Boltons: at Winterfell/same..story speeded up.possible change in battle *Stannis: dead/lost battle/different *Mycella: dead/different Selmy: dead/different *Jamie: returning to KL/different *Brienne: in the North/different *Varys: Essos/different *Pycelle/Kevan: alive/different So, there is more change in the secondary characters, but we are looking for the most part, deaths that were moved up and a few people in different regions. Nothing really very substantial when you get down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think it's awesome Stannis stole Brienne's revenge in a way. At least they didn't make him go out like a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aucp3 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 As just a show watcher (didn't read past book 3), for all the complaints by book Stannis lovers, I REALLY enjoyed Stannis' story arc this season AND how it ended. And when you think about it, it felt like this season's main points were blind religious belief (both in Stannis and Cersei's situations) For all the build up and feeding of prophecy by Melilisandre that Stannis was Azor Ahai, the promised prince, the one to save the world, she was SOOO adamant that she made tons of people forget that we'd watched she and Stannis commit horrible acts and burn non converts alive for three seasons and actually had a ton of people pulling for him. I even thought he'd play some major role. But, it's that blind faith and ambition that led him to believe so much in it, that he felt burning his own daughter was a part of "his story" to please the Lord of Light and save the world.Yet, at the end of the day, it meant nothing. For all the build up, he fails in every way. He doesn't even get to have an amazing "going out" sequence and is killed by a woman still harboring anger over someone most people barely remember.It's an old school classic tragedy story. It didn't make me hate Stannis, it made me empathize with him even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arplus Elisjay Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 He killed the love of her life with black magic. And she's Brienne of fucking Tarth. He's dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 As just a show watcher (didn't read past book 3), for all the complaints by book Stannis lovers, I REALLY enjoyed Stannis' story arc this season AND how it ended. And when you think about it, it felt like this season's main points were blind religious belief (both in Stannis and Cersei's situations) For all the build up and feeding of prophecy by Melilisandre that Stannis was Azor Ahai, the promised prince, the one to save the world, she was SOOO adamant that she made tons of people forget that we'd watched she and Stannis commit horrible acts and burn non converts alive for three seasons and actually had a ton of people pulling for him. I even thought he'd play some major role. But, it's that blind faith and ambition that led him to believe so much in it, that he felt burning his own daughter was a part of "his story" to please the Lord of Light and save the world.Yet, at the end of the day, it meant nothing. For all the build up, he fails in every way. He doesn't even get to have an amazing "going out" sequence and is killed by a woman still harboring anger over someone most people barely remember.It's an old school classic tragedy story. It didn't make me hate Stannis, it made me empathize with him even more.Book stannis is never about him being Azor Ahai and he isn't a blind religious fanatic. And that is why stannis books fans are pissed. He goes along with melisandre and some of her questionable acts, not because he believes strongly about the lord of light et al, but because he thinks melisandre's magic is powerful and useful. A clear distinction between stannis on the show and books, is stannis never burns or kills anyone because of religious reasons! he only lets melisandre burn people he has already sentenced to death for secular reasons, namely treason. I m not surprised you enjoyed stannis' arc on the show given your selection of profile pic. You probably think stannis' main purpose in the story is a cautionary tale about religion, while dany is supposed to conquer all and win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I m not surprised you enjoyed stannis' arc on the show given your selection of profile pic. You probably think stannis' main purpose in the story is a cautionary tale about religion, while dany is supposed to conquer all and win the game.Lmao it's always a Stannis vs Dany thing around here. Yeah, Stannis never burns anybody for religious reasons, but I wouldn't say that he doesn't buy Mel's prophecies.Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the enemy I was born to fight."Certainly seems like he buys into the Azor Ahai thing if we go by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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