Voramir Glover Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We know that George RR Martin does not like "white" and "black" characters, so the song of ice and fire is filled with "grey" characters. But I can't find the merest hint of white in the character of Gregor Clegane. Is the Mountain an exception character in asoiaf? Is he pure evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLightning Lord Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 He suffers from bad headaches apparently. And he can't have been that bad to be knighted by Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLightning Lord Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Martin likes moral ambiguity when it comes to major characters. Gregor is a minor character who is straight up evil and he is not alone in that. Ramsay, Rorge, Biter, Septon Utt etc. all fall into this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beacon Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Maybe he had a bad childhood or maybe he has some emotional/mental issues. But during the time that he has been portrayed, he has not done any act that I would classify as 'good' or 'just' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We know that George RR Martin does not like "white" and "black" characters, so the song of ice and fire is filled with "grey" characters. But I can't find the merest hint of white in the character of Gregor Clegane. Is the Mountain an exception character in asoiaf? Is he pure evil? Yes, he is pure evil with no redeeming qualities. No, that repeated ad nauseam maxim about GRRM writing everything "grey" is false, you pointed out one of many prime counter-examples. Actually, the opposite is true: GRRM writes pure, 100% black evil like few authors beside him. Compared to several villains in ASOIAF, even Voldemort, Sauron, Jadis and Palpatine are more grey and controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in The Mount Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We don't know. GRRM doesn't write "Gregor was evil", He writes "Ned said 'This Clegane guy is evil'" This is important, we always know about Gregor from other's perspective. He acts like an asshole, kills and rapes, but we don't know his motivation or what goes through his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We don't know. GRRM doesn't write "Gregor was evil", He writes "Ned said 'This Clegane guy is evil'" This is important, we always know about Gregor from other's perspective. He acts like an asshole, kills and rapes, but we don't know his motivation or what goes through his head.Hmmm yes great point. I'm there was some strong motivation and reasoning behind smashing a babies brains in and raping his mother before murdering her...doesn't matter what's in his head or what motivation he had he's straight up evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pearce Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 No one is pure evil. But Gregor Clegane is very close. While i have some little shred of sympathy over his suffering of constant headaches, he's pretty much a monster. In my opinion, Martin writes a bunch of grey characters, some evil ones and very few good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Nilsson Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 He is neither Evil nor good, He does as his masters tell him, he is more of a dog.And a dog isn't really evil or good. They just are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Closet thing there is to pure evil. But he does have some (at the very least) understandable/sympathetic qualities.Ser Gregor is overly accustomed to the milk of the poppy, I fear. His squire tells me he is plagued by blinding headaches and oft quaffs the milk of the poppy as lesser men quaff aleShouldn't it be pitied that he's in such agonizing pain that it makes him violent and cruel, causing him to inflict the pain he feels onto others?Don't get me wrong, he deserved everything that happened to him and he in fact deserved worse. But that doesn't mean he is without any understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The level of cruelty some of his characters display is without peer outside of the realm of horror literature. GRRM writes compelling, vivid and believable characters. But this "no pure evil" talk is kind of silly.Gregor and his men, Ramsay and the Bastard Boys, Vargo and the Brave Companions, Rorge, Amory, Euron, most of the Ironborn, Qyburn, Roose, Cersei, Tywin, Aerys, Joffrey, Drogo, Qotho, Mago and the rest of the Dothraki, the Great Masters, the slavers, Baelish... Seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We know that George RR Martin does not like "white" and "black" characters, so the song of ice and fire is filled with "grey" characters. But I can't find the merest hint of white in the character of Gregor Clegane. Is the Mountain an exception character in asoiaf? Is he pure evil? The mountain suffers from severe headaches and violent mood swings.... He appears to have a medical condition that would likely be linked to his immense stature.... Instead of treatment, he was rewarded for his anti social behavior. Evil must be a choice. Gregor did not choose to be born a freak in size and temperment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonking Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The level of cruelty some of his characters display is without peer outside of the realm of horror literature. GRRM writes compelling, vivid and believable characters. But this "no pure evil" talk is kind of silly.Gregor and his men, Ramsay and the Bastard Boys, Vargo and the Brave Companions, Rorge, Amory, Euron, most of the Ironborn, Qyburn, Roose, Cersei, Tywin, Aerys, Joffrey, Drogo, Qotho, Mago and the rest of the Dothraki, the Great Masters, the slavers, Baelish... Seriously...None of these are particularly outside of real life behaviour. There're many historic examples of mass cruelty especially in times of civil war like environments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SchwedentrunkThe Schwedentrunk (English: Swedish drink) is a method of torture and execution. The name was invented by German victims of Swedish troops during the Thirty Years' War. This method of torture was administered by other international troops, mercenaries, and marauders, and especially by civilians following the Swedish baggage train, who received no pay. It was used to force peasants or town citizens to hand over hidden money, food, animals, etc., or to extort sex from women.Even though 15% to 20% (locally up to 60%) of the German population perished due to violence, famine, and disease during the war, the memory of the Schwedentrunk was preserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The level of cruelty some of his characters display is without peer outside of the realm of horror literature. GRRM writes compelling, vivid and believable characters. But this "no pure evil" talk is kind of silly.Gregor and his men, Ramsay and the Bastard Boys, Vargo and the Brave Companions, Rorge, Amory, Euron, most of the Ironborn, Qyburn, Roose, Cersei, Tywin, Aerys, Joffrey, Drogo, Qotho, Mago and the rest of the Dothraki, the Great Masters, the slavers, Baelish... Seriously...At least half those people you can easily say aren't purely evil like a Gregor or Ramsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We don't know. GRRM doesn't write "Gregor was evil", He writes "Ned said 'This Clegane guy is evil'" This is important, we always know about Gregor from other's perspective. He acts like an asshole, kills and rapes, but we don't know his motivation or what goes through his head. And that's different from most other pure undisputed villains in arts - how? Darth Sidious? Cruella DeVil? Michael Myers? What you described is standard. We aren't treated to a character in question's encyclopedia entry, with some impartial unbiased authority naming them evil. They're seen by characters in-story as such, and they commit vile acts that earn them that label. You could possibly use your argument to defend a thesis that "no author creates pure evil, ever". But not that there's something allegedly more grey to Gregor Clegane compared to, say, villains in J.R.R. writings, or C.S. Lewis' writings, or Disney Animated Canon.ETA: the entire topic reminds me of a joke, where a visitor at a zoo, looking at a giraffe, declared: "there are no such animals!". So I invented a fun game for you, boys and girls. If Gregor Clegane isn't pure evil... then who is? Find me in popular culture a fictional character who deserves that label more than Ser Gregor. But, to make the game fair, before you declare "I found one!", at least try the same greywashing that is being done to Gregor here and see if it sticks. And: if GRRM allegedly "doesn't write 100% black characters", who does? Please, try and find an author who created worse, more evil pieces of shit than Gregor, Ramsay, Kraznys mo Nakloz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 He is brave and determined. Few men dare plough into the opponents lines like Ser Gregor, so yes, I'd say he possess some positive traits. That said, the other 99 parts of him are fucked up beyond recognition, and even these positive traits are twisted to be used for evil. Still I wouldn't classify him as pure evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 At least half those people you can easily say aren't purely evil like a Gregor or RamsayEven if you are right their vile deed outweighs those of a lot of characters regarded as unambiguously evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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